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Dispute with mod

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭The_Macho_Man


    I’m not sure all this “internalised racism” “white liberals” talk applies to boards.ie, maybe boards.us.

    Like the hysterical anti-trans soapboxing yesterday morning, people are now just using this thread to parrot whatever American talking point they read on Twitter today.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Lads!! HELPDESK.

    Take the chit-chat elsewhere. I don't want to threadban posters because then I have to manage the threadbans (and I simply couldn't be arsed!) so I'll have to forum ban instead, and I really don't want to have to ban anyone from Helpdesk.

    Just give it over. Please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,378 ✭✭✭archfi


    I agree but I hope you can see what is happening and from whom.

    A thing isn't what it says it is.

    A thing is what it does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    BBOC, I think boards.ie could do with a vent thread in feedback. There's obviously a lot of frustration being built up with the site and nowhere to release it.

    These threads spring up sporadically, and then often get shut down in a while due to circular arguments or the admin have enough. Wouldn't it make sense to have a permanent thread set up in feedback where the users can vent frustrations and grievances politely?

    Most normal forum rules apply* and if someone gets banned from feedback, it's not like they're getting banned from the helpdesk.

    *I mean, the only concession would be that the thread would probably have to allow discussion of moderator actions or else it would be quite redundant.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,593 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. It'll just be another cesspit thread where people attack the mods and bring up irrelevant grievances from years gone by. It's not healthy to be that obsessed with an internet message board, honestly. I see no reason why the site should introduce that level of pandering.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Or if people want to vent then why not create their own website for their venting/ranting and whatever rules they want to have instead of coming on to other websites and getting annoyed about the rules that they have in force.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I asked a question about criteria for being a mod in CA, and no mod or admin seems bothered about answering it.

    People refighting all their boring CA fights in here is indeed rather pathetic but there is a reason it happens. Nature abhors a vacuum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels




  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    This thread is titled "Dispute with Mod". It could have been used for constructive discussion around the actions of moderators, explanations why some decisions are made, civil discussion between mods and posters. Moderators are open to this. A number of moderators have engaged on this thread.

    But instead, as with every single thread that gets started, it gets taken over. Offtopic posting, petty squabbles, digs and insults. Then people blame the mods for not keeping control. No moderator is on here posting like that! That's all on the average poster. It's like herding kittens!

    People in here complaining about heavy handed moderation and warnings and bans, yet I would argue that probably 75% of this thread deserved to be warned and even a few bans handed out. A couple of posters were warned and then came back indignantly complaining about "ridiculous moderator action". With other posters joining in to agree.

    Now, most moderators take this in their stride and let it run off them. But then that leads to "I PMd you and you didn't reply". Nobody has to reply to that sort of "demand" from disgruntled posters. You also have other posters chiming in and complaining about actions taken against other posters, action not taken against some posters.

    Nobody believes they are the problem. Yet we're here in a thread where the huge majority are complaining of the many problems in various forums. Problems with other people, obviously.

    If a civil, mature discussion could be had there would be a lot less divide of them v us. The problem is a lot of posters will always have a problem with the moderator. No matter what the action is.

    I just want to say, from an Admin point of view, hats off to all the moderators throughout the site who deal with this constant playground battle daily.

    There is no need for a "vent thread" it will just go the way of every other mod bashing thread. If you have a legitimate complaint, air it. Without resorting to insults. It can then be addressed. Civilly.

    Post edited by Big Bag of Chips on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I thought the issue was with perceived inequalities of rules application rather than the rules themselves?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    If you believe 75% of the thread deserve warnings or bans well then thats the issue the posters here are giving out about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    There is no need for a "vent thread" it will just go the way of every other mod bashing thread. If you have a legitimate complaint, air it. Without resorting to insults. It can then be addressed. Civilly.

    With all due respect, I think this is part of the problem. Not every complaint against a mod is meant as a bash, and shouldn't be assumed to be one. Some are legitimate, and civility needs to come from both sides, yet I have found that the moderation team are inclined to take immediate offence, and jump almost aggressively onto the defensive if/when a poster tries to raise any issue with a moderator.

    From my perspective, there doesn't appear to be a middle ground where grievances with moderators can be addressed, civilly. It usually comes down to, "if you don't like it, leave".

    Also, it is of concern that mods can see every report made, including those in forums they don't moderate, and any made about their own posts. I know it has been said that most mods would not let that influence their modding, but I find that hard to believe. It's human nature. I assume mods are not allowed to moderate reports on their own posts, but have to escalate them to a CMod or Admin?

    I also acknowledge that this visibility of reports is currently outside of the mod team's control and is a Vanilla issue, but it something that should be explored with Vanilla.

    (eta) I think a thread like this should be neutral ground. If posters are not allowed access to DRP on certain threads, then mods should allow them a space here (or create a new space) where posters who do try to raise legitimate issues in the appropriate Helpdesk / Feedback forum are not threatened with action against them, for doing so.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,593 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I get every report from the Social & Fun category sent to my inbox. I consider it spam so I set up a rule to have it marked as read and deleted automatically. I simply don't have time to waste reading every report and I'd say the other mods and cmods feel the same way.

    As for the mod bashing allegation, that's all the last Feedback thread was, along with airing petty grievances. This isn't a both sides issue.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    he done same to me, I even opened a thread here in help desk with details that just got closed without the issues being addressed

    He then proceeded to exact revenge on me for pointing out the hypocrisy and the lack of consistency in moderation with a one week ban by calling it “back seat moderation”

    Probably send another one now for this post, for daring to point out the bullshit and inconsistent moderation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    My one take away from reading this thread is far too many people take this website too serious.

    Go out and get some air ffs

    That one poster claiming that someone might take them out 😂 😂

    Lunacy



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Criteria is simple.

    - Someone active in the forum. This seems to be important to the users as a big complaint is mods making a decision without knowing the full context of threads etc.

    - Someone who has the ability to stay calm and cool. Someone with a large history of warnings and bans in the forum would be ruled out

    - Someone not heavily entrenched in right v left (whatever that is!) who will mod both "sides" equally

    That's it really. But you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to pick someone who meets that criteria. A few names have been put forward and are being considered. We hope to make a few offers over the weekend.

    Now whether or not the posters accept the offer remains to be seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    It’s almost like some want to drive the site into the ground for some reason and push people to Reddit



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,593 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Reddit's a really crap place to have a conversation, I find. No linearity and trolls everywhere. If there was a single site whose existence justified moderation, it's Reddit.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    But aren't you a Social and Fun Category moderator / CMod ?!?

    I don't disagree that there is some mod bashing going on - but not every thread or complaint is a mod bash or is started with the intention of descending into that. Yet it seems to be received that way by default.

    I do disagree that this isn't a "both sides" issue. Like I added, there needs to be a neutral ground somewhere where both sides feel they can be heard, without threat of sanction as long as they remain civil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Well boards.ie sure as hell no longer a good place for serious discussions

    Where pointing out inconsistent moderation only earns you more infractions

    The poster who made an identical post to the one I made and got infraction for I see still hasn’t been warned for that, while I ended up with a week ban for pointing out this bullshit



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  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    There are plenty of complaints about the rules too!

    As for perceived inequalities of rules application, I've already admitted that a huge majority of the posts on this thread could probably do with a warning. And indeed some were warned.

    So yes, there has been inconsistencies in my application of the rules here. But I've used discretion and warned, banned the biggest offenders and pleaded (multiple times) with everyone else to move on. If I had applied warnings and/or bans to all posts here that should be earned we'd have a huge backlash of "mod power shutting down threads"... The moderators have to walk a fine line.

    If you got warned in this thread you absolutely deserved it. Just because you didn't get warned doesn't mean your posting is ok, but the mods are trying to balance between being "heavy handed" and being too lenient, or inconsistent.

    It's not an exact science. It's not a direct line. But moderators don't generally set out to be difficult just for the sake of it. But you can't please everyone all of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,370 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And it seems that even if a thread is started sincerely, with a considered complaint\point that may potentially be legitimate…

    If other posters drag it into that territory, instead of properly dealing with the posters who did that the admins here take a dim view of the thread and everyone involved and the thread dies.

    Rinse and repeat.

    So it is unclear how sincere posters are meant to go about it and sincerely raise general issues with moderation - without risking their thread being hijacked.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    That’s all well and good but I pointed out a clear example of two identical comments in two threads parallel to each other

    I got an infraction for the comment and then a bigger infraction for disputing it while the other poster got nothing

    If moderators are gonna play out their little power trip fantasies then at least be consistent about it

    Also shutting down help desk threads that point out clear examples of moderation powers abuse is a load of bullcrap and only furthers the theory that yes there are moderators who are there not to moderate but to shut down discussion and drive the site into the ground



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    I know.

    But the ones giving out are in the 75% of posts that need to be warned or banned! If we do that, and I have an hour to spare this evening I can go through the thread post by post and applying those warnings (5 points will result in a siteban), then many of the posters, which I assume feel they have a legitimate complaint will end up banned, and then complaining about heavy handed moderation!

    If we want use this thread as a test case and applying consistent moderation throughout I'll happily do it.

    I would prefer though to maybe appeal to people's senses and ask them to just post in a more civil, more on topic manner.

    Is it really worth sitebanning the majority of contributors to this thread? Would that be a positive outcome from this thread?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Exactly.

    At risk of being accused of attempting to backseat moderate, this thread should have addressed the OPs complaint, and the rest left aside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Is it really worth sitebanning the majority of contributors to this thread? Would that be a positive outcome from this thread?

    You're the admin, you tell us what you think. I think it would not.

    Personally, I think it's very, very unfair for you to say,

    If you got warned in this thread you absolutely deserved it. 

    Knowing that that statement cannot be argued against here, as "discussing moderation actions" goes against the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Disagreeing with a complaint is one thing, but banning posters for complaining, that's a whole new level. Just shut down this area of the forum if you think you must be above complains.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,593 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You need only look at the last feedback thread to see my point.

    Depends on the topic.

    As for feedback, your point is objectively false. Plenty of people have complained about moderation and received no sanctions.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    no issue thats fair was merely meant as a direct reply to someone saying it was the rules themselves over which this thread was created



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  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,555 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    You see, there's the knee jerk reactions and sly digs again. I'm not sure if you don't understand what I posted, or are deliberately misunderstanding what I posted.

    I'm not talking about banning posters for complaining! I specifically mentioned off topic, bickering, digs, insults. And I meant this from posters to other posters.

    People are entitled to complain about moderation. People are entitled to ask questions and have discussion and answers.

    But I think in this thread we've had people arguing about, immigration, Trump, rape, trans issues, refugees, racism, the definition of racist, and someone being accused of being an antagonistic Man Utd supporter. None of that at all relevant to the issue of the thread.

    I can't speak for everyone on the mod or admin team, but I certainly take time to try discuss issues. I listen to complaints. I offer explanations. I go back to the mod teams to try find solutions. But almost every post I post on these threads comes back with someone intent on misunderstanding the point completely, completely misrepresenting what I've actually said (I often get a reply of "so what you're saying is..." It's NEVER what I'm saying!) and getting in a passive aggressive dig in the process.



This discussion has been closed.
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