Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

Did I hear a "zoogender" or was I imagining that?

Saw a while ago that depression is a gender, when you feel one 'gender' when you're feeling ok, and another 'gender' when you're feeling down...

No, that's just depression you're feeling

So many bad things flow from linking gender to identity in isolation. For me identity encompasses race, sex (I prefer that word), sexual orientation, how I present to the world (that could include whether I behave in a typically masculine or feminine way, though I dislike stereotypes) political beliefs, religion, …..etc.

It's been pointed out that in order to prosecute anyone for incitement to commit a crime, it must be a specific crime.

A general call for violence against a certain group of people cannot be prosecuted. Not sure why you can't understand that.

Well then you will agree that incitement to violence is not an offence and cannot be prosecuted.

No, I didn't ignore it, I simply took it to mean that there had to be something specific following after the Incitement charge - e.g. Incitement to violence is vague, incitement to strike with a baseball bat is specific. And the idea of specific vs specified in legislation probably doesn't help with confusion.

I am aware in the case of conspiracy, there are some offences that are specified in law, as per Conspiracy to commit offence X, Y or Z, with penalties spelled out accordingly. Also, there is an offence of Conspiracy in common law where the DPP can add any offence to the conspiracy bit, and in that case there are no prescribed penalties. (To use the legal phrase as Mr Justice John Edwards said in an Appeal court hearing I attended, the court is "at large" in such cases and could actually hand down a life sentence if they felt the gravity of the offence merited it).

I wondered out loud if an incitement charge could be made where the actual offence in question didn't actually happen for some reason, but you deigned not to give me the benefit of your well-informed legal perspective on that.

When TDs knock on the doors looking for votes this nonsense will be far down the list of things the public want sorted.

Historically, both terms “sex” and “gender” were used interchangeably in the English language. “Gender” was seen by some as a bit more polite due to some discomfort with the word “sex” and its association with the “sex act” etc.

In recent decades, some academics started to use the word gender as being different to sex and referring more to identities than the physical charctestics. In recent years, this idea has now entered the mainstream.

Other languages don’t tend to have two words like this.

if you look up the word gender in a dictionary from the early 90s you won’t find references to gender identities.

You know that the offence of incitement to violence doesn't exist. That's good enough for me. Even with all your patronising and sarcasm, you still can't deny the truth.

Worth posting these from Ronan

https://x.com/FreeSpeechIre/status/1846644655372583306

The manipulation of definitions is the ultimate attack on freedom of expression.Opposition to this Bill is not about letting real hatred escape punishment. That is achievable without (a) conflating ‘gender’ with ‘gender identity’ or (b) allowing the 'progressive' Gardai PULSE definition of hate (which is based on ‘perception’ and not on objective facts) to become the de facto understanding of what ‘hatred’ is.

Be quite clear, the proposed conflation of wording has as its fundamental objective to stop you saying that men cannot be women. Punishing hatred can be achieved by using a legislative-based definition, not one that was thought up in a garda backroom. It is legislators, not Gardai who make the laws, and the Gardai enforce them. This is not an upside-down, Alice in Wonderland democracy.

The decision by the Gardai to mistakenly include gender identity as a grounds for discrimination on their PULSE system is driving this 'alignment'. The Gardai have made a mistake and women will pay the price enabled by McEntee.

It's not surprising that the bill won't be before the Dail until after the General Election…

These are the 23 organisations (some aren't apparently incorporated) which form the Coalition Against Hate Crime, along with their latest annual income and taxpayer contribution. They wanted Hate Speech laws, but seem happy enough for now with Hate Crime.

That's 23 organizations in receipt of €20m+ taxpayer funding who were lobbying the government to bring in Hate Speech laws. Even the Irish Council for Civil Liberties was in working with them. But now they've achieved a legal pilbox with a new definition of gender.

It doesn't take much to notice there's a considerable cross-over with the NGOs, which were advocating Yes-Yes in March 2024 in the two referenda. Referenda rejected by seven out of 10 citizens, despite the government concealment & taxpayer-funded NGO campaigning & lobbying.

What gender is an intersex person?

I'll email Sen Sharon Keoghan she has a list…

The bill is before Dail tonight after 9 …… email your TDs

Still waiting @1800_Ladladlad. Being an expert in this area you shouldn't have any difficulty answering.