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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,015 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Blade is 30. That's hardly giving youth a chance.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Give youth a chance and then you name the 30 year old Blade as the alternative to the 35 year old Murray?

    Forde isn't a replacement for Healy or POM either.

    The younger players in those positions are in the extended squad already - Izuchuckwu , Prendergast and Kendellan for POM along with Boyle and Clarkson for Healy.

    None of the potential next generation of Scrum halves are quite there yet.. Murphy is off to a flying start in Connacht and might be ready for a "training squad" slot by the 6N or the summer tour if he keeps it up , but this month is too early for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    It's 2024 and people are still getting surprised when Andy Farrell names an ultra conservative, aging Ireland squad. He's been doing it for years. Who honestly cares anymore. Personally I couldn't give less of a sh*t about these games. I couldn't even tell you who we're playing.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And yet you find the time to come here and tell everyone how disinterested you are…

    Like you do every time Ireland are playing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,015 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And to be fair to Farrell on the scrum-half situation, we've already seen some transition there with Casey being named ahead of Murray in SA when JGP was injured. I expect that to continue when all 3 are fit, tbh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,575 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We're like SA naming a full squad of all that is available rather than resting a few of the older players. I thought we should have done that for the SA tour, we didn't and now we're not doing it for the home matches

    Like awec above I'd like to see McCann get a shot at showing us what he could do in an international match or two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭50HX


    Not goin back over the WC debate again

    Limited international tests for coaches, most coaches are conservative for a number of reasons.

    In Farrells case he obviously doesn't see at present a viable int alternative currently ripping it up consistently at club level to drop Healy/Murray. POM is v debatable at this stage now I agree with you on that one

    FJ & Mccall are contracted to the end of the season, mccall prob another season.

    Leinster wanted to keep Cullen, what he has done in bringing academy players alone through the set up has been top class. It's his coaching staff that will be the winning of trophies for leinster this year (if) not Leo alone



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,375 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Prendergast has started plenty of games for Connacht at 8, and also started against England in the summer nations last year at 8 for ireland.

    in fact Prendergast has more starts at 8 over the last 3 season than McCann, does that mean McCann isnt a "proper 8" either?



  • Administrators Posts: 56,559 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It wasn't a shill for McCann.

    I didn't realise about Prendergast, fair enough then!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,575 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Let the young 10's make the 10 position their own not have the old 10 back in

    The oldest 10 in the squad is Frawley and he's only 26, followed by Crowley (24) and then Prendergast at 21.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Agree with this. The squad is fairly old. But, the summer tour should bring in a handful of newbies.

    Replying to above post



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Indeed. Thought Doak would have earned a cap by now. But he's not at international standard. Blade is decent, that's about all he is.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,375 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    id imagine the "sub" 8 spot os between Prendergast and Timoney.

    Timoney has started loads of games at 8 for ulster, including 12 of the regular 18 URC games last season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Josh Brennan in the France squad. Delighted for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    Collectively it's a problem. In a couple of years we could hit a situation where the core of the team all begins to decline or age out at around the same time. All of the players listed are included on merit but if we don't start filtering in younger players over time it's going to lead to a slump followed by a drastic clearout and a difficult transition to the next generation.

    Something similar happened in Wales with the 22/23 team. Welsh coaches rode the AWJ & friends train for a solid decade getting a bunch of centurions in the process but they were all a similar age, all declined at the same time and within 18 months the entire squad fell apart and left Wales in the shambles they're in today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Whose VC?

    Beirne?

    PACK (v NZ)??

    Porter, Heffernan, Furlong; Beirne, McCarthy*; Baird*, van der Flier, Doris (capt).

    Replacements: Herring*, Healy, Bealham, J Ryan, *O’Mahony or Izuchukwu or S Prendergast.

    *Herring: 'Calf injury' & yet to play this season -

    *McCarthy: 'Hamstring' 5th Oct - "will step up his training programme this week from a hamstring injury and will be further assessed before a final decision is made on his availability."

    *POM: 'Hamstring' 5th Oct - "will continue his rehabilitation with Munster next week as he builds towards a return to action over the coming weeks."

    *Baird: Concussion 12th Oct - "Is in the final stages of the Graduated Return to Play Protocols and, subject to coming through them, will be available for selection at the weekend."

    Henderson: Concussion 12th Oct - "Hendy….coming back to fitness….will all be available for selection this week"

    Kelleher: 'Ankle Surgery' 10th Oct - "will be unavailable for four to six weeks after undergoing a procedure on an ankle injury"

    BACKS (v NZ)

    Keenan; Hansen, Ringrose, Osborne or Aki, Lowe; Crowley, Park.

    Replacements: Murray or Casey, Frawley*, Osborne or Aki.

    *Frawley: 'Ankle' 19th Oct - "rolled his ankle…. and while not serious, will be further assessed as the week progresses before a final decision is made on his availability."

    Henshaw: 'lower leg injury (COUGHhamstringCOUGH)' & yet to play this season - has resumed full training and will be available for selection this weekend.

    https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/2024/10/21/leo-cullen-issues-injury-update-as-several-players-step-up-their-recovery/

    https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2024/10/23/six-munster-players-in-irelands-2024-autumn-nations-squad/#post

    Interesting to see Leinster and Ulster selections this Weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,015 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It was 22 mins. Way too short to be drawing conclusions about any kind of form from that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,015 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Totally agree with this. I remember looking at this around the 2023 6 nations I think, where Ireland and Wales had comparable average age per squad.

    But the age distributions back then could not have been more different. Wales had loads of 34+ and 23 and under, whereas we had a far healthier distribution across various age buckets.

    Having said that, we're nearly 2 more years down the road with a lot of those players now. I agree, we are going to need to see some changes soon to a pretty core element of this squad. By the next 6 Nations, we'll have the following. That's a lot of really core guys pushing on.

    Name

    Age

    Cian Healy

    37

    Peter O'Mahony

    35

    Conor Murray

    35

    Finlay Bealham

    34

    Bundee Aki

    34

    Rob Herring

    34

    Tadhg Beirne

    33

    Stuart McCloskey

    32

    Tadhg Furlong

    32

    Iain Henderson

    32

    JGP

    32

    James Lowe

    32

    Robbie Henshaw

    31

    Josh Van Der Flier

    31

    Garry Ringrose

    30



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    dont think thats a dave alred thing to be honest, going by any videos ive seen of him working with players he spends alot of time working on spirals, i doubt hes then telling them not to use them



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It's an old squad. There needs to be an injection of youth. France have a bunch of uncapped in their squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,083 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    France have named 42 players, eight of whom are uncapped.

    Ireland have named 40 players, seven of whom are uncapped.

    I fail to see how one of these is much worse than the other. If you can only see the older players and ignore the younger ones, then yes, it's an old squad.

    The comparisons to Wales are hilarious. We have been actively turning over our squad at a pretty consistent rate. For all the people moaning about POM, they're forgetting he was dropped for our last match against the world champions, that Murray is now third choice, that Herring is also third choice, and that Healy would be out to pasture if only we had a decent alternative.

    There's no younger player who can consider themselves truly hard done by today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    5 of ours are apprentices, so to speak. Bagmen? They'll be in the environment and that's about it



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    France always call up a bunch of bagmen who know they'll be released back to their clubs.

    They will have a few debutants though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,055 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I was really surprised by his omission too. Seems like exactly the kind of guy the coaches would want to have in camp, even if he wouldnt be first choice.

    Henshaw is over 30 now so maybe Forde will do a Henshaw and switch to Leinster...

    Jokes. Bringing that up is probably a thread violation. Won't mention it again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    We might have T'O'T packing down at loose head. That would be great if he can perform there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Most worrying thing for me is Farrell continues to show absolutely zero intention of addressing the problem at loosehead. He's once again persisting with 37 year old Healy backing up Porter and hasn't named a 3rd LH. At what point does he actually address this? Will Healy still be backing up Porter at the RWC aged 40?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,083 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    So? It's a start, isn't it? it's up to them to make an impression now.

    Gus McCarthy is one of only two hookers in the squad who could actually line out if we had a game tomorrow. Clarkson and Boyle are each one injury away from benching against Fiji.

    Let's see how many new caps the French actually dish out.

    People are missing out on some much enjoyment from this team by only ever focusing on the negatives and constantly looking for ways to criticise. It's genuinely depressing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    He's never played a pro game at looshead. If he's the solution at loosehead, why isn't he playing there for his province?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,083 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




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