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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,898 ✭✭✭deezell


    You make it sound like he was her personal consultant. That's a ridiculous comparison to an act of criminal damage by a drunken lout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think you are missing the central point. All parties mess up, it is the level of scrutiny and accountability that is demanded that is the issue. The agenda setting by those who set the agenda -the media in other words and the 'IRA-ing/SF-ing of everything and the quite frankly - myopic scrutiny.

    The IRA-ing of everything was particularly prevalent the last time out, this time it is the SF-ing of everything with a bit of IRA-ing as can be seen right now on the thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    It is relevant. Pointing out the ridiculousness of the ties to the name and why they keep it (along with the others you mention is very important) is important.

    Part of their myth is that only Sinn Féin can achieve a UI as a Republic. But it is also all about justifying actions. I genuinely don’t think people understand this history and allow SF to spout stuff about being the “only 32 county party” as if that makes any difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,898 ✭✭✭deezell


    YOu make it sound like he was her personal consultant. That's a ridiculous comparison to an act of criminal damage by a drunken lout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    There isn’t a political party in the world that would have the level of scandals SF has had in the last few weeks & not have ONE rep call for change at the top.

    That’s the central point you miss, deliberately.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have repeatedly asked for compare and contrast to what happens elsewhere.
    How may reps called for change at the top as a result of the 'leak'?

    SF have lost 7/8 people now of varying levels, 5 of them of their own doing. Sacked or forced out.
    Compare and contrast that to how many were lost to the repeated scandals in the governing parties or were lost temporarily and are now back in the fold.

    Accountability in the established parties here is the stuff of parody. There is little to none. Another high profile FF deputy found to be flouting rules and regs and not a single mention of it in mainstream media.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    He ran the health service into the ground which effectively caused her death. The problems at that hospital were known for years and he did nothing. FFG inaction caused her death and will cause the deaths of more to come



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Off hand I can think of scandals from Boris Johnson, Bertie Ahern and Charlie Haughey that were worse and more numerous



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Brian Stanley left the party over an overall dispute resolution process.

    SF has never had a leadership heave. It has never had “Mongrel Foxes”, Gang of Four, Gang of 22, an Austin Deasy, John Bruton (he survived 5 heaves), the Green Isle Hotel heave, the Martin heave on Cowen…I can go on and on here.

    If you go to Australia, leadership heaves are part and parcel of politics- Labour in Government (Keating / Hawke), the Killing Season (Rudd / Gillard), Liberal Party (Malcom T / Abbot) etc. Even back with John Howard in his pomp there were background attempts at getting numbers which were known in public.

    In terms of U.K. politics - you have Thatcher / Heath, Thatcher’s various defectors and ultimate heave, Major’s “put up or shut up”, Brown / Blair, the Corbyn heave, the Tories of the last 8 years…

    The above are a mere selection.

    Whether it has been polling, egos or scandals, you don’t hear anyone even background briefing the press on SF’s leaders, let alone actual heaves. This is singularly unique in western democracies - there is no disputing that. Now SF supporters might claim that’s what makes them so amazing, but in reality there’s another word for it and it begins with C.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I think they're beyond accountability at the moment and need to look at their current members a lot more closely. The behind closed doors nature of SF will mean that these incidents will continue to happen, and any response will always be reactive.

    This GE is off the table for SF which means people voting for change will need to go elsewhere, likely the Social Democrats, as they actually have a chance at being in power. SF passing over the opportunity last time must haunt them (especially as their supporters keep insisting that SF would have coalesced into FF).

    I would note that the deer in headlights responses from SF supporters after the recent spate of sexual abuse and paedophile scandals has changed a bit today to be more of an attacking front (and not just attacking the paintings of the opposition).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Worse than multiple instances of paedophilia and sexual abuses? Really? From a party perspective, it's probably worse than truss's economic suicide pact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Matters of Bertie Ahern’s finances was his scandal.

    If you are suggesting this is worse the numerous child protection issues we have seen in SF in recent weeks, you really have “FFG” brain rot.

    Did you miss throughout Haughey and Johnson’s time the number of people who spoke out on his leadership and challenged them? Tell me why the height of what we see from SF is murmurings on northern vs. southern leadership?

    In fairness, Mary Lou’s failures of leadership clearly pale into insignificance when judged against Gerry Adams ones with regards to his brother and Maria Cahill. Something nobody did anything about either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    They rushed in to try and undo some of the damage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Far worse. SF are actively trying to rectify the situation some of their members put them in. They have even gone as far as reporting some of their own members to the cops

    Meanwhile Stephen Donnelly, gets a pat on the back from his party leader and stays on in his role. Meanwhile other failed health ministers are made party leaders. The accountability deficit in FFG is far more worrying than that of SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    At least they have tried to undo some damage with some degree of speed, the ED at UHL is still a s#!ts#@w 2 years on from Aoife Johnston's avoidable death



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    It is, but I haven’t heard SF say anything about what they’d do to remedy the issue. The HSE and hospital manager needs a big shake up here. I’m asking this in honesty because most of what I’ve heard SF do is shout about the obvious problems but I never heard them shouting about solutions, or what they’d propose as solutions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They are not a normal party, long ago accepted by me. That's quickly explained by where and what SF came from which was not normal in any sense of the word.

    Which other of those examples had their leader interned and then shot or had a police force more interested in information about the leader than they had in a heinious crime committed by somebody else?

    They were how they where because of the environment. I outlined real change I see above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    50 years ago?

    You realise that the German Social Democrats were banned in Nazi Germany, right? That they were killed and exiled?

    What do you think happened to scores of political movements during WWII?

    Where did the other Irish parties comes from?

    We are 26 years on from Good Friday and SF exceptionalism still seems to be a reasonable excuse from the likes of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    New leader is 4 years in office,
    A deputy leader that was challenged for her job, nothing abnormal there.

    They acted on PSNI info and got rid of one member. Immediately launched an inquiry into another two and got rid of HR manager

    Reported another two members to the PSNI.

    They have a textbook disciplinary process that acted immediately on a complaint and gave the info to the Gardai.

    That IMO is a dramatic change and normal behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,550 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Give the ‘whataboutery’ a rest, buddy..

    SF are in a shambles in a mess of their own making.

    They are a beaten docket, and nobody in their right mind would give them a No1.

    Game is up, the Emperor has been outed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The poster in question was making a comparison, I challenged it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    That's what is really hurting SF for swings voters.

    Serious issues not addressed, cover ups and no accountability. People can't trust them. The paedo/underage kids links are worrying and will further eliminate voters.

    MLMD should be told to stand down immediately. It won't happen. She won't voluntarily stand down either and will continue to drive SF further into the ground. Incompetence.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    The leader is six years and a half years in the job.

    Why example do we “need” this with SF can you tell me?

    Why do we have to tolerate it- we tolerated it once upon a time because they had a bomb in the other hand.

    Why today do we have the likes of you still making excuses for them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭spillit67


    And you won’t even hear a peep about disquiet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Even at 6.5 years there is nothing abnormal.
    I don't understand your second sentence/question
    I am not asking you to 'tolerate' anything. We all have things we don't tolerate, and vote accordingly.

    I didn't make a single 'excuse' here:

    New leader is 4 6.5years in office,
    A deputy leader that was challenged for her job, nothing abnormal there.

    They acted on PSNI info and got rid of one member. Immediately launched an inquiry into another two and got rid of HR manager

    Reported another two members to the PSNI.

    They have a textbook disciplinary process that acted immediately on a complaint and gave the info to the Gardai.

    That IMO is a dramatic change and normal behaviour.

    I just outlined what happened. Judge for yourself I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,789 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    my cat could run the country better than the current lads. Name anything they've got right? Even 'full employment' sours when you realise the place is fully employed in breadline jobs. Housing? shambles. Social welfare? Shambles - but then again they have to buy the support every election time. immigration? laughable. Health? Has me in stitches.

    I do wonder why the likes of brian stanley walked, but otherwise Im seeing a party dealing with a massive increase in support and then the wearing down of that support. They're still a better shout than what we have. A plank is better than what we have but Im betting a lot of the people complaining about SF are going right out to vote FFG. Not that any of them would have the bollocks to admit it mind you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Breadline jobs? Can you provide stats?

    To me it appears we are doing OK by EU standards.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Living_conditions_in_Europe_-_poverty_and_social_exclusion#:~:text=Romania%20(32.0%20%25)%2C%20Bulgaria,EU%20value%20being%2021.4%20%25).

    Housing is a problem. But we are building a lot of houses. We are completing the most units per capita in geographical Europe.

    Housing output is going up all the time. The problem is we have so many migrants it's still not enough. The opposition nor the government can solve the problem unless they reduce demand.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/650790/completed-dwellings-per-citizens-by-country-europe/

    Health is a disaster. Has been forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I find its better to ignore the rambling posts of nonsense to tell everyone how terrible it is and how great SF would be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,549 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Good to see the sinister attempt to take advantage faced down.

    She might not be in the Chair long but the principle was the thing here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Yes the "sinister attempt" to get Catherine Murphy as the Leas-Chathaoirleach to do the role.

    SF are great at bickering, not much else



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