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Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    If Trump is bad, why isn't Harris winning at a cantor? Perhaps its more to do with Harris not being that great a candiate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭ElitesTeam


    Why did you quote him and then post that stupid question?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But you guys haven't actually explained what was so bad about the interview.

    So when you claim stuff like this, the only comes across as you being desperate and trying to rewrite reality. It doesn't really come across as a good look.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,729 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    See the article that I linked to earlier from the NYT - It does as good a job as I've seen at explaining why US voting patterns are so stubbornly 50:50 regardless of candidate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'm guessing you find it very hard to defend Trump swaying to Cats for 39 meeeeeeemorieeeess - I mean, minutes, also?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    I am interested to hear his opinion.

    Why do you think the question is stupid?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,051 ✭✭✭BailMeOut


    He as much admitted this later saying she outsmarted him.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because a sizable portion of the electorate don't seem to want a good candidate.

    Are you now dropping the pretense and arguing that Trump is a good candidate? Or somewhat equal to Harris?

    If not and we agree hes a terrible candidate, then why do you believe he's doing so well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Not in the last vote that mattered, the Republican primaries. They overestimated his vote share by up to 20%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭ronjo


    They also overestimated that results in 2022 of the candidates he backed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,816 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But MAGA was Trump's only committed support there wouldn't be any mystery and he'd barely be outpolling Barry Goldwater. Instead it seems that virtually the entire right-conservative side of the American electorate has been rock-solid behind Trump since his first presidential run, including the vast majority of (increasingly mythical-seeming) 'moderate Republicans'. He trashes conservative shibboleths over and over and it barely register on that side of the house

    Is this due to his own peculiar alchemy that can united all shades of the Right behind him no matter what he says or does, or are we now living in a world where the Right in its broadest sense will rally behind the Republican candidate regardless?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's because the right has been shifting toward totalitarianism and Machiavellianism. It's less about standing and winning on principles but 'winning' and figuring out the rest later. Which, as we've seen has meant that even when they get eg. a house majority, it's still a tersely held together coalition of people that actually don't get along because they never agreed on any principles once the electioneering was sorted. That's why the house majority hasn't passed a damn thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    That first line is part of the problem, I think, because if you constantly underestimate your foe, it really plays to your foe's advantage.

    We can say that Trump is a good candidate while still finding him personally and politically odious. We can also say that he is remarkably able and resilient in at least some respects. He's certainly bad in a moralistic sense, but in the sense of being a political force, he's very good indeed and has basically ensured that while his ceiling may be limited, his floor will be oh so high.

    The people voting for Trump mostly do not find him a bad candidate. Maybe some are voting for him as what they see to be better than the alternative, but the others think him to be great.

    Dismissing him or the people who vote for him really just enables him to hang around way longer than he ought to be able to because waving off the phenomenon of Trump/Trumpism ensures that it's never really dealt with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    He is a terrible candidate, for some reason the Democrats decided to run with a man who is no longer in control of his faculties and replace him at a late date with a place filler.

    Harris is exceptionally poor, it was arrogance that left them stuck with her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,119 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Because for years we all said a lot of Americans are dumb.


    Now that number has increased and they have a vote.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As I keep saying, if you think its about Trump your not paying attention. It's about a white, males heterogeneous Christian America.

    Agenda 2025 and the GOP will deliver that future, Harris will destroy it forever.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, but those accusations you guys don't seem to be able to articulate very well.

    You agree that Trump is a terrible candidate. Great.

    Is he worse than Harris?

    To most people, the answer, even if they think Harris is bad, is yes.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,560 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I haven't watched the full Fox interview, but from the clips and analysis I've seen it's again far too simplistic to call it either a big win or loss for Harris. I would lean towards it having been worth doing (she had little to lose, really, even if her performance was worse than it actually was), but hard to guage what impact it'll actually have either way.

    She absolutely is confident on attacking Trump and what he represents, and can certainly handle a tricky interview better than Biden could. But she's pretty weak when it comes to discussing policy in this kind of context - insisting she's a 'change' candidate and not continuity Biden, but unable or unwilling to articulate exactly what that means. She has policies for sure - some good ones, even! - but directing viewers to an 80 page policy document on Kamala Harris dot com rather than having a short, sharp pitch for her presidency is a mistake. Soundbites only get you so far, sure, but you still need to be able to articulate a vision succicntly.

    My fear is that the Dems are too insistent on once again making this a Trump referendum rather than offering any real, punchy vision beyond status quo, neoliberal Dem fare. As someone on the left I'd of course love to see major change in the US for the benefit of its people, but even on a much more modest scale than radical change Harris has struggled to articulate why she's a supposedly 'new generation' of leader rather than just another centre right establishment Dem carrying on in the same vein as her predecessors. I mean, she's a new generation in terms of being younger, yes… but what does that mean in terms of leading the country? And, putting aside the grievance politics and bigotry that drive many MAGA devotees, there is plenty the Dems have done over the years to have justifiably lost the trust of ordinary voters.

    The 'Trump is a danger' line is undoubtedly justifiable and worth repeating because the man remains an absolute weapon on almost every possible level, but when the opposition struggle to articulate what exactly they do represent other than 'not Trump'… that's when I think the deep frustrations with and criticisms of the Democrat party remain plenty justifiable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,026 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    If shes so poor, and donnie so great, why's she leading him in the polls?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,626 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    She won't. She'll just kick the can down the road. Project 2025 will become Project 2029. Trump may die or be imprisoned but white nationalism, incels, conspiracy theories, Christian fascism, and American Naziism are all here to stay for the forseeable future.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,949 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A lot of those who would vote for Trump are not actually Trump "supporters".

    They are against establishment Democrats (and Republicans) for all sorts of reasons and he's the only outlet.

    He is the molotov cocktail they can throw with little consequence to their lives where they feel they have already been continuously let down.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Demographics will win this election, and demographics will make Christian fascism untenable as a party position going forward.

    This is the last election cycle where whites are in the majority. Only a coup can change the fact that they are a fading demographic which doesn't even represent what many white Americans believe anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Who knows who is worse.

    Can he beat her, certainly, is there a slight bump up for him, yes.

    That's how absolutely shi7 a candidate she is.

    Easily the worst in a generation, Bush Jnr at least had a personality, an individual style and his own views.

    Blind allegiance is keeping both their bases in line, holding the nose.

    If the trend continues to slip against her, 45 will be 47



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Who apart from you said he is so great, that's your opinion of him.

    Her lead is small and disappearing in swing states. Maybe you think that is a good thing, it just is.

    Whatever way we look or think about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The economic forces driving demographic change in the USA are bigger and more powerful than anything Trump would have in his arsenal should he be reelected. However, his supporters would be too busy making mock crying faces at 'the libs' to notice this fact.

    People like Trump, who openly laugh about busting unions or have all their cheap merch made in China, aren't really interested in making life better for the middle class, or working class as we would call them. They're really about ensuring power and security for a very small group of billionaires and centi-millionaires.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,626 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm not nearly that optimistic. America's relationship with religion is bizarre to say the least but it's not going away as a political force. Demographics may be changing but my point still stands. The far right are on the march and in the US, it has captured one of the only two parties of government.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You'd be complaining just has much no matter who their nominee was. Newsom 'ew terrible california liberal' Shapiro 'ew bargain bin obama' etc.

    Whereas 4 years ago I compared Biden to the carbon rod of politics Harris is a fine choice. Her only problem is the right is a cult and she is a woman, which seems to be a dealbreaker for a lot of people for reasons I cannot fully explain.

    And yes the right is a cult, even eg. senators like McConnell have said Trump is a danger and unfit etc. but they're still supporting him because 'the R' - similarly Mike Pence - Mike Pence, has refused to rule out voting for him. The cult stands for nothing but power and control.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Maybe but they are really capable people. Really strong candidates. Shapiro certainly models himself on Obama but he has the talent as well to pull it off.

    Biden has always been good with people and used be a orator and debater.

    If Harris loses it is because she is losing traditional Democrat heartland support. They won't allow go Trump but many might stay home or vote Stein.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Good to see you using words instead of just pictures. Welcome.

    Brett Baier spent time yesterday explaining about how Harris got a viral moment because of a mistake he had made that she nailed him on.

    That interview went better than Harris could have expected. She'd have happy walking out having held her own given it was on Fox obviously, she did much more than that.



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