Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I have empty properties. The high tax I accept. The reason they are empty is because it is impossible to get rid of bad tenants. Good tenants cannot get properties because bad tenants have destroyed the market. Because the RTB enables them. Apparently you can wreck a house, grow drugs, sublet, have parties, stop paying rent and still be on the right side of the law. It must be the highest risk investment there is.

Yes, reading the judgements of the RTB is truly chilling. House wrecked but if the landlord didn’t dot the ‘I’ on the eviction notice, then it’s the landlord who’s in the wrong.

In Ireland

Two minuses make a plus

Bad tennants are rewarded at considerable cost and billions of taxpayers money are spent ensuring that those that hoard critical infrastructure away from the economy are rewarded

Let's see where such policies take the economy

Imagine going into work trashing the place and sabotaging the power to the building and preventing access to the building for other staff and the company policy ensuring that you are rewarded the most while productive staff pay the price

Hmm, why sell the property on if it's not used? Better to put the money into something useful to you than to keep it in property that's not occupied. Personally, if I had an unused apartment or house, I'd sell it and use the proceeds to either improve my own house, buy some land or put into a fund for my nephews.

The vacant house grant is a great example of using the tax system to reward a behaviour you don’t want. It might seem to make sense in the context of bringing back currently vacant homes, but what message does it send

‘thank you for letting your house go derelict. We would like to reward you with a €50k payment for it from the taxpayer. Well done’

I’d see this as borderline conspiracy theory at this stage tbh. The government are well aware that their biggest barrier to continued election (salary/pension/power etc) is increasing home ownership.

It’s easy to find examples to suit your view in both directions, but if the government genuinely had some weird agenda to make housing more scare and more expensive (and lose them their jobs?). Why would introduce a 6% levy on properties above €1.5m? This is clearly aimed at cooling the top end of the market.

Throwing in the huge spend on housing leading us to top Europe for house building. Doesn’t fit with a narrative of an evil government trying to restrict supply and increase prices.

"This is ambiguous, and it invariably means giving people more money, which is just drives up prices."

But this is what the public wants. I remember when the CBI was debating whether to increase LTI restrictions from 3.5 to 4 and the general consensus I could see online and in the media was celebratory enthusiasm for this action, despite the obvious effect that this would have on house price inflation.

As I see it, the CBI and government are giving people what they want.

Why sell it now if it is still appreciating?

It's an asset. If you had shares that were rising in value, would you sell them straight away?

The moral point is important, but its not the posters fault that there is a lack of housing in Ireland and if there were a surplus of housing and prices went down, the govt would not be funding the shortfall in sale price for the poster.

Dont hate the player, hate the game and all that.

As I see it, the CBI and government are giving people what they want

I suspect the remit of the CBI is not to give people what they want and would be considered at best populist governance. Government should be working for the best interests of the nation and to @Richardand point of a few years government inflationary housing policies, we are very close to entering the 4th decade of housing inflation policies

What an enormous success it has been

It's an asset but it is also a home that is desperately needed.

I understand why people would keep a house vacant if it's the best financial option available to them but they should also be honest with themselves that it is not the right thing to do from a moral standpoint.

I would say it is actually partly the poster's fault that there is a shortage of housing in Ireland, as he has properties that could alleviate that shortage but he is leaving them vacant instead.

Regardless of whether it is his fault or not anyway, we live in a society and we have a duty to contribute positively to that society instead of just our own bottom line.

I'm not aware that they do. This is from their website:

https://vote.sinnfein.ie/house-prices-continue-to-spiral-out-of-control-it-is-time-for-a-new-approach-eoin-o-broin-td/

"In government, we would deliver tens of thousands of genuinely affordable homes at prices from €250,000 through Local Authorities and Approved Housing Bodies, while also activating the private residential development sector to deliver more private homes to purchase at more moderated prices."

Their aim, whether they can do it or not, is to subsidise building to deliver "affordable" houses to people. This is not the same as wanting to lower house prices overall. There state is merely picking up the tab, which is more or less what any such scheme will do.

There is one way to lower house prices and one way only; the increase the supply whilst reducing the demand. No policy that I am aware of will do this.

"Regardless of whether it is his fault or not anyway, we live in a society and we have a duty to contribute positively to that society instead of just our own bottom line."

This. The philosophy of the hyper individual is bringing the West to ruin. Like it or not, no man is an island, and eventually the socially deleterious policies of pursuing growth and personal wealth will eventually come calling. I'll be forgiven for a bit of dramatic language, but men died for Ireland to be its own country and a home to the Irish people. They didn't risk everything so it could become just one more economic zone to generate growth.

It's time we started thinking about the future generations who will have to live with our decisions.

One is for sale. The other can't be sold for personal reasons.

That all sounds great in the story books, but in the real world, its an asset for the poster and their family. It belongs to them and they have the right to retain it as they see fit.

Now if its empty, it should be taxed into oblivion via vacancy property tax. If the owner is happy to pay the vacant tax on it then use that money to construct govt homes.