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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭pureza


    Sarah on radio one there ,laying it into Matt Carty for not answering questions on this SF shambles,a car crash interview that would make the producers of fast and furious blush?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Stop bringing up this nonsense.

    If you vetted every single person who "might" come into contact with children, that would be a logistical and administrative nightmare and overburden the Garda Vetting Office. Risk assessment determines that priority is given to those who organisations know will be working unsupervised with children. They are rightfully the priority of the vetting legislation and the vetting office.

    Most organisations who would have people who might occasionally come into contact with children have robust procedures in place to check those people out as they are outside of vetting regulation. The BHF have these in place. Nobody gets a job without a reference and those references are verified and checked with senior officials of the organisation providing the references. These procedures did not fail, the vetting legislation did not fail. What failed was that the Sinn Fein organisation allowed two senior managers - the HR Manager and the Head of Communications - to provide references to a known paedophile without mentioning his child abuse charge. Remember, this is the political party with the gold-plate standard child protection policies that MLMD told us years ago would ensure there would never be a repeat of the Marley case.

    This is on Sinn Fein, nobody else.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    If they can’t manage an internal party process well it doesn’t look good for Harry Potter’s €300,000 houses either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    Who did they expect to parachute in there and retain that seat in the Dail? That seat wasn't going to be held after the pushed out the sitting T.D..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So it's at arm's length from the party, but party members would have to be briefed, but you and @Augme have been going on about GDPR preventing people from being told stuff.

    There are so many twists and turns in both your stories that you have become a parody of a parody.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So it can happen again.
    I think legislation can be tightened to include all employees of organisations of a certain type like the BHF which would frequently involve children.
    Depends on how serious you are about protection.

    Yes, it is on SF and they took the only actions they could against wrongdoing and accepted the failings in their own organisation to try and prevent it happening again. But if somebody is determined to break rules and act in secret….can they effectively prevent it. Can any organisation/employer?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I don't think you understand the nature of a kangaroo court. It has nothing to do with whether a person has a lawyer or a barrister present.

    It is about the creation of a by definition corrupt legal system outside of the normal courts system to adjudicate on a person's fate. Having a lawyer or a barrister present makes it even more corrupt as it brings more organisation to the kangaroo court than say a simple lynching or PIRA kneecapping.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    I know people are enjoying hauling FrancieBrady over the coals but there is a bigger story here which is a TD seat is returning to either FG or FF who consider themselves the natural parties of Government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    N ever thought id see the day when a shinner of 40 years would admit th at Sinn Fein operated cangaroo courts. Maria Cahill must in her element. She has been writing some brilliant articles in the Sunday Independent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So why did his barrister and solicitor keep him in a 'kangaroo court' until the process finished and entered preliminary report stage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭pureza


    why wouldn’t they? It wasn’t a criminal kangaroo court

    Just one it seems designed to get rid of him quietly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No, tightening the legislation would not work, as you clearly don't understand the nature of the problem.

    For example, because of Ogra Sinn Fein, Sinn Fein occupies the exact same position as BHF. So would any restaurant that employs anybody under 18 have to vet every single employee. The definitions are there because of the risk assessment that balances the individual's rights versus the children's rights versus the bureaucratic nightmare.

    If we required the vetting of every person that might come into contact with children in an organisation that works in some way with children (the only definition that could work in this case), the task of vetting would require thousands of people and the return on the risk would be negligible.

    Ultimately, any legal framework only works if the organisations and the people in those organisations follow the system. As Sinn Fein had a system that didn't set off warning bells when some people gave paedophiles a reference (and yes, those people are particularly vile individuals) then no legal framework can stop that happening.

    MLMD has already admitted to wrongdoing by Sinn Fein in this regard, so I don't know why you are beating this drum except to divert and obfuscate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    How do you know it was 'serious'? Do you know what the complaint was?

    Do you know what allegation he made?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So, it could easily happen again.

    Best practice is to make sure your protocols are tightened up and penalise anyone who ignores them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    How did Lynn Boylan get hold of this report? She seems to know a lot about this case..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Was in town at some meetings this afternoon, picked up some stuff, made a few calls on the way home. Quite a range of outlandish stories being told about this case. However, some common nuggets and common threads to what is being said.

    Understand that the allegations against Brian Stanley are serious but not criminal, made by a female. Serious enough to warrant gross misconduct but below the criminal threshold. Understand also that he made a criminal counter allegation against the original complainant, and there is some substance to that. Have heard the nature of that allegation from one source, but not confident enough to state it here.

    Aspects of what both sides are saying are therefore true. However, the crux of the matter is why was the criminal allegation left hanging there by Sinn Fein from 11 September to 13 October?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    That’s neither here nor there, there is an allegation out there.

    Yet Lynn Boylan said Brian Stanley;

    Speaking on Newstalk, Ms Boylan said: "Brian could end all of this today, and actually could tell people what he was being investigated for, if he felt so hard done by in terms of that process."

    How was it possible for him to “end all of this today” on something where one of the issues is something you are saying that SF cannot adjudicate on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


     Surely the party members being briefed once that happened would be normal in those circumstances?

    Pa Daly woke up Sunday morning, and on his way up to Dublin to appear on "The Week in Politics" only found out about Stanley resigning through the media. He didn't have any idea what it was all about.

    But oddly, Lynn Boylan seems to know all about it before then…

    Seems to be people in SF in the know and others not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I'm getting very confused now (not unusual for me has to be said…).

    Would someone please tell me what the hell is going on here. First off I thought Stanley was being investigated and that the issue attributed to HIM was being referred to the Gardai.

    Now I hear that someone else is being investigated (I think) and it is the issue involving him/her that is now being referred to AGS.

    Is that right? There are so many twists and turns to all this it feels like I'm paying a visit to Hampton Court Maze or something.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    @squonk. If they can’t manage an internal party process well it doesn’t look good for Harry Potter’s €300,000 houses either.

    I thanked you for the reference to HP. The younger ones here have been calling him that from day one. Just made me smile for once today amidst my deeply furrowed brow and sharp intakes of breath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    See my post earlier.

    The original complainant made an allegation about Stanley. This is not a criminal allegation but was substantive enough to merit a finding of gross misconduct against him which would see him expelled. In the midst of the kangaroo court, Stanley made a counter allegation of criminal behaviour by the original complainant. Given the nature of his statement, it is not difficult to speculate on what that might be and I have had someone claim the same to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    And also possible that SF could not adjudicate on it.

    Yet here was Lynn Boylan being very specific on who she said could “end” this.

    If SF could not adjudicate that as Francis says, Boylan’s statement is at the level of undermining a whistleblower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So his own barrister and solicitor allowed him stay there to be got rid of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,074 ✭✭✭realdanbreen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I think they expected him to do the time honoured thing in Sinn Féin. Perhaps a bit of Martina Anderson but only that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Or took responsibility and began an inquiry on foot of a complaint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    She was no doubt brief as to the events when Brian Stanley resigned and released his statement. Given all SF TDs will face media questions I assume they were briefed so they could provide answers to those questions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Answer the question Francie.

    You have said that it was impossible for SF to adjudicate over the other complaint.

    So please tell us all why Lynn Boylan said that Brian Stanley could “end” this?


    Speaking on Newstalk, Ms Boylan said: "Brian could end all of this today, and actually could tell people what he was being investigated for, if he felt so hard done by in terms of that process."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    And so must an organise that takes on volunteers that will interact with children.



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