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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah but were you ever a SF voter? Her election while on holiday suggests people were voting for the party, probably on the back of the incredible strength shown by MLMD in the debates, rather than the candidate

    I imagine many won't vote for her, including myself as my constituency is Limerick, and she might not even stand so it's a bit of a moot point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,575 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Ryan is running as an Independent. Won't take a lot of votes but I'd say SF can kiss that seat goodbye, should easily go to Wall now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's one of the realities of partition. There is going to be crossover when you have a political party that is established in both jurisdictions. Don't see a problem with it myself and evidently the regulatory bodies don't have either.

    Ditto with any property owned, it's not up to random interneters to determine if that is kosher or not.
    If they are breaking rules it's up to the regulatory bodies to decide and if they are they should be sanctioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Very hard to find the financial information on Sinn Fein and consolidate it between North and South.

    Much easier for other parties, for example, I think FF had around 70 staff the last financial report I saw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The problem with persecuting Adams for perjury is that while his story changed several times, he only gave one story under oath. He could claim that there was no evidence, other than his own unsworn statements, that his evidence was incorrect, i.e. there was no possibility of evaluating independently his version. Even if his brother had given evidence against Gerry, it would have been one man says versus the other, making a perjury conviction impossible because of the standard of proof.

    The charlatans who rely on the absence of a charge know this all too well, yet they still claim pure innocence for Gerry.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    There actually is a problem, because Northern Ireland is another jurisdiction, and like it or not, interference from another jurisdiction is not democratic. The other point is that Sinn Fein should declare help from the North as a donation down here i.e. when canvassers come down. They never had, but SIPO can't prove anything.

    Also, it is a lie to suggest the regulatory bodies have no issue. SIPO are on record to say that there is an issue with the law around parties based in both jurisdictions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have long called for SIPO to be given the powers it requires to keep all parties in line.

    As I said, it is not up to random interneters to police/audit this stuff. Why? Because of inherent bias neither you nor I etc are reliable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    It only really matters this election tbh after SF got millions from that cracked old man in Wales

    They've always had the money from America which to be fair was probably needed as official fund raising in the Republic over the years was small as for decades,they were an unpopular ás gaelige version of a communist party weren't they



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have always required political parties I have voted for to change, if change is neccesary.
    In 2011 for instance, FG promised change and again in 2016 - they didn't and they lost my vote.
    SF have radically changed as a party and continue to do so. They promised change in the GFA and set about it. Currently they get my vote. They will lose it if they don't implement what they promise.
    We have plenty of examples of politicians playing fast and loose with regulations across politics here. ANY party or politician breaking rules or found not to be compliant should be sanctioned, I can't be any clearer.

    Those who have the power to see to it that rules and regs are observed are ultimately responsible as is any government that won't for whatever reason give the regulatory bodies the powers they need and have repeatedly asked for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Another attempt at censorship.

    Random interneters cannot police or audit anything, but they can act as whistleblowers and call out bad behaviour where they see it, or those exploiting loopholes, or identify sanctimonious hypocrisy.

    Put the facts out there e.g. Gerry Adams as a liar, and let people make their own judgements.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It would be good to know this about every political party. I'm sure if you scoured the internet enough the info is accessible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    For the normal political parties it is. However, for Sinn Fein, because of their labyrinthal activity, much is hidden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes because FFG have always been so open and honest about their dealings haha!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,796 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    silly talk considering we all know SF are an ALL ireland party. Still amazes me how much interest there is in SF by people who claim to not care about the party. 'Claim' is the word there because SF lives rent free in a lot of heads in here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I never said I didn't care about Sinn Fein, but I have said that I don't care for Sinn Fein. There is a difference.

    If the Conservative Party started running candidates here funded by their machine in London, you would be the first to complain about influence from another jurisdiction in our democracy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Just like I wouldn't entertain complaints from those who don't vote I find it very hard to entertain complaints from those who keep voting for parties who will not, even when repeatedly asked, give the proper powers to regulate all political parties.
    Those who you vote for made the bed…change it or continue the slumber.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Vote for a party that will ensure proper regulation and scrutiny and then we can all be happy about all political parties operating here.

    BTW, Most if not all political parties on this island 'glorify' past torture, sectarian shootings etc by the various sides involved in conflicts/wars.
    I would say there are parties currently who have questionable views on world politics too. Different questions than yours but questions none the less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/kildare-td-patricia-ryan-on-her-sinn-fein-resignation-takes-issue-with-vetting-of-questions-to-leader-mary-lou-mcdonald/a638053865.html

    The most interesting thing about Patricia Ryan's take on this is this bit:

    "She said she felt pushed by the national leadership of the party – but not party leader Mary Lou McDonald – as issues she raised were not addressed."

    "She emphasised that she did not feel pushed by party leader Mary Lou McDonald, but that Ms McDonald “assured me that they would look into everything and would get things addressed” when they last spoke four weeks ago."

    Effectively what she is saying is that MLMD does not lead the party, it is led from elsewhere. This is something that many of us observers have been commenting on for some time. So when you see MLMD say that she will ensure that policies on child protection will be followed, how can we take her word when we see that she could not even help her colleagues!

    Who runs Sinn Fein is the real question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Allegation and insinuation for the sake of it, without any back up, are the order of the day again.

    Nearly as reprehensible/embarrassing as seeing a party member who was once ridiculed now championed by the same people who ridiculed her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Witness testimony from a TD you defended to the hilt up until a day ago.

    There are lots of people out there who I would ridicule but accept their witness testimony. She was telling us about things that had happened to her, which makes a change from her 9/11 conspiracy theories which didn't happen to her.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Eh? I challenge you to find me using Patricia Ryan’s name anywhere up until the mention here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    70,000 posts and you want me to go down a particular rabbit hole where you specifically mention her name, as opposed to when you have responded to criticism of her from other posters and defended her (which is impossible to locate in 70k posts)? Not going there as you have deliberately crafted an impossible task in order to obfuscate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    Yeah most parties on this island if you go back a 100 years like you are asking there,evicted wifes off farms if their husband died and didnt let them vote untill they were 30?

    Going back a 100 years to justify yourself,is just desperation,I mean where would we be if we used a 100 years or more ago as a justification for something today?

    Oh wait the age of consent 150 years ago was 13,sure wouldn't that get that lad in Belfast off the hook and no controversy eh ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's as recent as this

    collins.jpg

    and plenty of other examples.

    I don't have issue with it BTW but to deny that all sides in our conflicts/wars do it, is self serving and nonsensical.

    And again I see the 'time limitation' used just because it suits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well go on then, find me a post where I defended her without naming her?

    Absolute out and out mistruths again from you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    Thats not my point as you well you know,you buttering both sides of the bread as usual

    No T.D in this Dáil outside of SF (+Aontú & Pringle) afaik venerates people who have killed in their lifetime,they are and always were democrats,lets google 'civilised'

    If you want to say they all did it at one point so you can justify something in modern times,lets go back to burning witches,why draw an arbitrary line?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Makes no sense tbh.
    You are just making an arbitrary distinction which means nothing only to yourself. If you venerate people who used violence then you are venerating people who used violence. The Irish do it, the British do it, Unionists do it and Republicans do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    Do ya know,I'm making perfect sense,your logic of using the very distant past to falsely equivocate it to the present is like expecting Christians to carry 6 foot crosses and nail them selves to it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you support people who use violence you support people who use violence.

    Picking and choosing based on time passing is just covering your blushes.

    Neither FG or FF observed a hiatus where they didn’t revere and honour those who killed and maimed.
    You are posturing from a high moral ground you invented.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    Utterly contrary to my view that it ignores how societal norms develop

    As stated no other party other than SF/Aontú/Pringle in the Dáil fétes people who have killed in their lifetime

    I'm not taking issue with fète'ing them btw just completely at odds with any notion that things in the late 20th century or today compare to the early 1900's

    They don't

    That would be my opinion and of any academic or journalist today that I'm aware of

    So we'll just have to disagree,core SF voters are of course entitled to whatever narrative they like on the troubles

    Personally I'm not too far unparallel to those views anyway,in that I can understand where they come from ie I know what caused and sustained the IRA campaign

    Leaving it at that on that



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