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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    And I fully agree with him, he did the wrong thing and it remains the wrong thing to have done.
    There was therefore nothing fine about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nobody is handwaving away anything.

    There is a difference between writing a court reference for a sentence and helping a paedophile get a job with children.

    In the former case, the person will still be on the sex offenders list, in the latter you are helping him get around that.

    A second point is that the incident happened in 2006, yet here you are referencing it, yet excusing the behaviour of Gerry Adams who did far worse back in the day.



  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But because it's Gerry he gets away with it? Not very Republican to be fair. One rule for the elites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am glad that you have finally accepted that Gerry Adams did the wrong thing. I think we all now agreed that based on what he did, he has no place in Sinn Fein. You are on record several times in the last day or so stating clearly that anyone who did anything wrong in relation to child abuse has no place in Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have no power to get Gerry jh79.
    I never voted for the party with him as leader but I did accept his apology.
    People make mistakes and if they own up to them I have a certain respect for that.
    SF have owned up to mistakes and failings in the party and are taking action.

    TBH I don't see that behaviour in other parties even when wrongdoing is admitted to.
    The wagons get circled the wrongdoer is protected/defended (by several people posting sanctimonious calls here) and in the case posted with the CC (not the only one, as we know) the victims are forgotten.



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  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Instead of saying he made a "mistake" change your post to say you accept his apology for:

    *Not reporting the rape of his niece

    *Putting more children at risk to a pedophile by moving Liam into various jobs/locations

    *Intimidating the childs mother to protect the perpetrator etc.

    If you are willing to go this low at least own it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Here is the behaviour that Francie thinks it perfectly fine and dandy - just so long as he apologised when it became public knowledge years later.

    She said: "I was very concerned that Liam was seeking jobs working with children. Gerry told me that was Liam's way of trying to make up to the community for what he done to me. I kept telling Gerry to get Liam out of the youth groups."

    Anyone on here long enough can remember some of the despicable stuff that was posted to try and downplay the actions of both Liam and Gerry around the cover-up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The day that Gerry dies, the truth will all come out, because the solicitors letters and the injunctions won't have any power anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    can remember some of the despicable stuff that was posted to try and downplay the actions

    I'm around here long enough to have seen all kinds of stuff defended.
    And to have seen many sanctimonious posts and exceptionalism.
    As Hugh O'Connell just said on Drivetime, there is a political aspect to all this in the Dáil.

    There is here too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Own what you are defending. This is the Sinn Fein thread, talk about others elsewhere.

    Of all the politicians that I have seen in my lifetime, and that includes the likes of CJH, there are none so despicable as Gerry Adams.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭mikep


    I recommend that anyone who hasn't done so, read the transcript of Gerry Adams cross examination during the Liam Adams trial in 2013.

    Also remember that SF were happy to have him as President of SF till '18 and a TD up to '20.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is quite incredible that anyone with any shard of decency would accept his apology for that. Nobody else in politics has ever been shown to be quite so despicable as Adams in that cross-examination.

    And that is before you consider everything else that he has had a hand, act or part in.

    I hope that the debate this week brings a renewed focus on the repeated and recurring issues that Sinn Fein have had with child sexual abuse. MLMD told us after the McGahon issue that it was fixed, that it wouldn't be happening again, yet here we are this week with a repeat.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/sinn-feins-mary-lou-mcdonald-insists-she-would-have-told-gardai-of-ira-rape-allegations/31063420.html

    Here she was in 2015 making promises, making claims of updated procedures. Yet, here we are, nearly ten years later and nothing inside Sinn Fein has changed.

    "She said the party updated its practice in line with HSE guidelines in 2010."

    No point updating practice if the culture of ignoring it and protecting child abusers remains unchanged. As the focus on this deepens the words of MLMD from 2015 will look hollower and hollower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And procedures were ignored and gotten around.
    Again, it was not ignored. Immediately an investigation began he was suspended and is no longer in the party. Exactly what should happen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.thepensivequill.com/2019/05/paudie-mcgahons-abuser-worked-with.html

    This is not the first time that Sinn Fein have been guilty of helping a paedophile work subsequently with children. We had the well-known Liam Adams case. Lesser known is the Paudie McGahon case.

    In this case, the abuse was reported to Sinn Fein. The local councillor reported it up the line and somehow, magically, a kangaroo court was arranged. At the kangaroo court, the kids were told that the man would be exiled. However, later they went to gardai and look what happened at the sentencing:

    "On the day of sentencing, on the day of Seamus Marley’s sentencing, his legal team brought forward letters from people of support and one of the letters was from an institution in Dublin that looks after autistic kids and on it said he worked from 2002 til 2004 with autistic children – and not only that he worked at – he volunteered for the job. Now this is a guy that was meant to be exiled out of the country."

    "Sinn Féin knew of that and he was working with autistic children and all over the world he was teaching English to children across Madrid, Thailand, China. He went all around the world teaching young children and the Sinn Féin party and the old IRA had full knowledge that he was not exiled in 2002."

    Remember, Sinn Fein have form for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There is barely an institution or organisation on this island that has handled sex abuse properly or well.

    The fact is, as far as I can see, that SF have handled this one properly, they suspended the perpetrator and dealt swiftly with those who ignored the procedure for writing references.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Most learned from their experience - Sinn Fein didn't, as we saw with the references being issued.

    Obviously the guidelines were poor, no checking etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We can all guess as to why the urgency is gone. Mine is that they won't like certain things mentioned when it's their own party under scrutiny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭JVince


    Shameful on mlmd and sf to try and deflect from the horror show they made.

    Remember this was a DIRECTLY employed member of the party who has been found GUILTY of meddling with children.

    Yet mlmd wants to deflect now - or did that missive come from the secret circle in Belfast?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They didn't employ somebody guilty of that.

    That was found out after the fact and he was dealt with immediately.
    MLMD scared them in the Dáil today I think. She's not taking any prisoners on this.
    Stand up for your own behaviour seems to be the angle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Muhammad Saeed Al-Sahhaf would be proud of the efforts being put into defending the party on this thread



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭JVince


    Are you saying the guilty child molester was not employed by sinn fein?

    I think you need to check very basic facts.

    Mlmd is deflecting. She was very quiet last week and only after the secretive inner circle had a meeting, did she make a statement.

    Following orders I suspect



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'm sorry, but it's their mishandling of the situation that allowed it to get this far.

    In no way or with any credibility can you say "The fact is, as far as I can see, that SF have handled this one properly".

    It's an utterly preposterous statement.

    Handling it properly would have been SF members reporting at the correct time, not firing multiple SF members after the fact.

    SF are now known the party with multiple paedophile problems.

    MLMD scared them in the Dáil today I think

    Probably not the right statement for the political wing of an ex paramilitary organisation to make.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have absolutely no shame defending what was done in relation to discovering an alleged abuser was working for them and what action was taken when it was discovered references had been written.
    Exactly what should happen and compared to what happened with other reference writers, exemplary.

    If victims are the real concern here - which action do you think victims would prefer?

    The one taken in the Shinner case or the action taken in the CC case?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    We know you have absolutely no shame defending SF full stop.

    That you think Sinn Féin’s HR manager backing up the references was exemplary says an awful lot about you - but nothing that wasn’t known already



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Put words I didn't say in my mouth now and avoid the question on victims.

    Problem here is that what you guys want is a pulpit to preach from with nobody answering back..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭mattser


    ' Change ' has been shelved for the moment by SF. ' Robust ' is the temporary replacement buzzword.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    It’s exactly what you said - maybe you don’t have the wit to realise it?

    You claim SF’s reaction to discovering the references was exemplary. The SF HR manager was the first SF official to discover the references - their response was to brush it under the carpet.
    Exemplary indeed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wrong, the HR guy didn't begin an inquiry, SF leadership did that and the reference writers resigned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    That’s the point - maybe you really just lacking the wit to understand it.

    The HR manager is an officer of the party. Thats when they become aware of it - and do precisely nothing about it.

    Its only when its about to become public do SF switch into damage control mode and act.


    Exemplary indeed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    But you can’t back that up. That is just your opinion.

    Fact - They took action. Those who did wrong are not in their roles anymore.

    Exactly what victims would want.



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