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OPW and projected cost of 442K for Modular Homes

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭plodder


    Comparing the two projects (the hospital and modular homes). Maybe they did them the wrong way round. With the hospital they split it into two contracts. One for the sub-structure and a second for the main part of building itself. On a project of that complexity, nobody other than the contractor for the sub-structure was going to bid seriously for the second contract.

    But, maybe that's what they should have done with the modular homes. Most of the risk was with site selection and preparation. A prepared site for a modular home is a simple concrete slab. Then you have a fixed price tender for the units themselves.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 983 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    Problem there is that with two contractors, there's always a serious risk of pass the parcel when something goes wrong. And that usually means a trip - or ten - to the Four Courts to decide who is responsible for what.

    On the wider issue, I'm really impressed at the number of resident Boards.ie experts who could have built the NCH in six months for half the price if only those darned civil serpents and corrupt politicians (sic) hadn't been involved! Ireland seems to be overflowing with bar stool experts who, for some curious reason, failed to pass the Civil Service recruitment exam!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    People working and paying taxes can’t afford a home yet we can give houses worth 440,000 to people who have never given a cent to the country.


    It’s insanity but people are numb to it all now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Nobody has claimed that the NCH could of been done in 6 months. Its doesn't require an expert to point out the fact that the NCH situation is the taxpayer getting f**ked over by lots of sh**heads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,118 ✭✭✭plodder


    Problem there is that with two contractors, there's always a serious risk of pass the parcel when something goes wrong. And that usually means a trip - or ten - to the Four Courts to decide who is responsible for what.

    That kind of work is often done by different sub-contractors anyway. It's hard to imagine too much dispute arising over the laying of a concrete slab for modular homes.

    On the wider issue, I'm really impressed at the number of resident Boards.ie experts who could have built the NCH in six months for half the price if only those darned civil serpents and corrupt politicians (sic) hadn't been involved! Ireland seems to be overflowing with bar stool experts who, for some curious reason, failed to pass the Civil Service recruitment exam!

    Other than to say it might have been better done as a single contract (given it was always likely to be the one contractor) I haven't been commenting on that controversy at all. I might have made the point once, that like all complex infrastructure, they tend to go over budget, and attract negative press while being built. But, all that evaporates when they are completed and people get to see and use the finished product. The same thing happened with the Dublin port tunnel, and will happen with the NCH.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    Yeah but: in any normal contract tender situation involving the state, the state sets all of the "conditions & contingencies" as well. The only things the contractor gets up determine are its price, its schedule and perhaps certain costs (e.g. rates in case of prolongation)

    This is also necessary so that you can actually reasonably compare different tenders.

    In what circumstances do other procurement routes become possible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    They don't always have "contingency provisions entitling the contractor to extra money [outside breaches by owner [which themselves can be small & even further limited] /extra works [with potentially defined rates agreed in advance]: see e.g. the CHUM super hospital in Montreal, where the contractor, Laing O'Rourke lost its shirt. :

    https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/contractors/laing-orourke/laing-orourkes-canadian-hospital-what-went-wrong-13-03-2018/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    Given its deeper pockets - & the fact that the contractor would otherwise have to pay for insurance for it (introducing middle man costs), the state is in a better place to take external risks over which neither party has control.

    However the PWC contracts are designed to transfer most risk to the contractor - significantly more than other contract forms used nationally or internationally - to achieve greater cost certainty at the expense of better value for money by appropriate risk transfer.

    Appropriate risk transfer to achieve best overall value has little to do with the projects being discussed however: if it did, the cost overruns would be very modest & explained by the state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭SpoonyMcSpoon


    The government has been trying its best to prop up the commercial property market by taking on leases for the empty glass buildings that have been completed in recent years. The corporate tax money is being funnelled into the pockets of those connected to the FF and FG corridors of power. It really is time to get rid of them and see just how rotten to the core the State is. Otherwise as taxpayers you will be forced to continue to accept a third world health system, no proper infrastructure, a boom-bust housing market (again), out of date and overcrowded education system; all the while those that had the keys to the corporate tax magic money tree have retired and will not be accountable. I can see why the young are emigrating; this is a failing modern European country when you spend some time in other central and western European countries. Ireland is cannibalising itself as it got too rich too fast and has not tried to invest its riches in a sustainable future.



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