Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?

191012141522

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If and when we get a United Ireland the DUP will likely merge with FFG, maybe run under separate banners for a few years etc etc. The 2 parties are very similar in policies of keeping those with money happy and oppose SF in any way they can



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    FG are front and centre holding SF responsible for the past, they demand accountability and apology. They would never invite a SF minister from the north to address them much less give them a standing ovation.

    DUP get a free pass despite their past association with paramilitaries and setting up paramilitary organisations and their continued associations.

    Own it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Maybe if FG showed an ounce of consistency you'd have a point.
    They haven't historically so it can be speculated they won't in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is exactly the kind of partisan behaviour that is causing a united Ireland to stagnate. The labelling of others and the exclusionist approach of such attitudes harms a united Ireland.

    All clearly on display from the usual sources.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: I'm not sure if you genuinely are feeling a sense of victimhood here with all this or not but tone it right back.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I clearly identified a partisan exclusionary approach by FG.
    When have they feted anyone involved in militancy on the nationalist/republican side of the conflict war?

    The answer is they haven’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    The reason why FG and it's the same for FG predecessors is that FG have stood by what the majority of voters wanted. In 1922 people voted for the treaty. Dev dropped SF when hardliners didn't want to actually listen to people.

    Throughout the troubles the SDLP were the biggest nationalist party. Modern SF was a minority. SF only became a big player when they dropped the IRA and the IRA disarmed/surrendered.

    The approach FG, SDLP, FF etc have taken is what the majority of nationalists support. Even the modern SF party eventually took the hint and SFs support has risen as a result. It's highly unlikely that SF would be the largest party at Stormont or knocking on the doors of government in the Dail if they had not copied the FG strategy and dropped militant Republicans(now called dissident Republicans).

    Your issue isn't with FG it's with voters. FG approach to the border has so successful SF copied it. Aside from the 1918 election militant Republicans have had a horrible time actually getting elected. Those that have stood against militant Republicans have won the majority of nationalist votes since in practically every single election.

    Or put it another way FG haven't reached out to militants Republicans because they haven't had to and have been rewarded for doing the opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Or put it another way FG haven't reached out to militants Republicans because they haven't had to and have been rewarded for doing the opposite.

    So they will continue to turn a blind eye to what one set of militants did, reach out to them and the next step will be possible coalition and people who can similarly select what they remember will vote for them.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,846 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: Right, yet another thread relating to NI has become a discussion about SF. Either get back on topic or I'll close this. If you wish to discuss SF then there is this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's precisely that myopic view of history that allows FG to fete the DUP and will allow people here to vote for them.

    I don't think SF will either court the DUP vote nor will the DUP seek them out for a long long time.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭65535


    With regard to the original question - currently they have a seal and their own parliment.

    And also currently the rest of the Island has to follow what is essentially 'Dublin Rule' from 'Leinster' House.

    At this stage of our so called Democracy we should have better local government with representation in each province and in that way it would be easier for DUP et. al . to exist and indeed be voted for depending on their policies and actions.

    We need to look outside the M50 - Yes - I know majority of population etc. but we do not all live in Dublin.

    Edit: And by the way the Dublin Government is providing funding for DUP and others on the Unionist side - I've no problem with it because it is indeed a shared Island - but we would need to get the unionist people on board with at least - at the very minimum - their own representation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "Dublin Rule" are you being even slightly serious?

    Most TDs are not from Dublin and many openly despise it.

    Our government is not providing funding for the DUP.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The DUP and other Unionists benefit from funding sent by Dublin for infrastructure projects and even the Orange Order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So a member of the DUP drives over a bridge partly funded by the Irish government

    You call that funding the DUP 🙄

    These posts are not engaging with reality at all.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here's what the poster said:

    And by the way the Dublin Government is providing funding for DUP and others on the Unionist side - I've no problem with it because it is indeed a shared Island 

    The DUP and other Unionists benefit from infrastructure funding and funding to the OO and other organisations from the Dublin government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Contributing towards infrastructure in NI is not "funding the DUP" or the OO.

    This is ridiculous.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Read it again, the poster never said 'funded the DUP'

    They said:

    'providing funding for the DUP and other Unionists'

    Unless the DUP are in some parallel universe that only benefits from British money, they are providing funding for the DUP and other Unionists, SF and other Republicans The TUV, PBP, Alliance , those of no political affiliation, Chinese, Polish, etc etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    They said:
    'providing funding for the DUP and other Unionists'

    Yeah, we're not doing that either.

    When we got EU funds for projects, were the EU funding Fianna Fail? or providing funding to Ireland?

    Claiming the former is ridiculous nonsense

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Some people will defend any kind of nonsense, that is what you are up against.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    The DUP would eat into Fine Gael votes in some constituencies, you could see the likes of Patrick O Donovan and Charlie Flanagan defecting to the DUP



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Would be a big issue too for Heather Humphrey's here and would have been for her predesscor Seymour Crawford. She'd be in a contest with them for a good share of her vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭pureza


    Has therere been a poll done to back up this nonsense or is this just more SF deflecting from their current troubles ?

    Ye are barking up the wrong website for that,the boards userbase is practically dead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The idea that the DUP would ever contest an election south of the (former) border is beyond ridiculous.

    Why would anyone in FG join a party reviled by almost everyone and certain to end their political career? Considering they already had the chance to end their careers with a reviled party by joining Renua, and declined

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,201 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The desperation is palpable. Not only are SF tanking in the polls, they're embroiled in a paedophilia scandal entirely of their own making, and a leader looking increasingly hapless.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF will change too, they have changed significantly in the years since the GFA but they won't attract DUP voters imo.

    You will get a very defined political landscape in the years after unification like you did with FF and FG after Independence.

    Only took 20 years to have the leader of the DUP feted at a FG congress. The ability of FG to forget is the significant thing in that.

    The natural home of those of a Unionist persuasion left behind by partition has always been FG, that is just fact.

    SF will hold seats and maybe pick up some in the north and I think FF will pick up seats there too - the SDLP will disappear or have another go at allying with FF imo. FG will struggle in the northern counties as they have ignored it electorally since partition.
    If the DUP take the spanner in the works approach in a UI (It will be disastrous for them if they do) then FG will stand off them, but if they accept the political reality then I think they will seek to attract votes here and as previously stated the FG demographic will be the target starting with the former border counties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,441 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Only took 20 years to have the leader of the DUP feted at a FG congress. The ability of FG to forget is the significant thing in that.

    I'll leave aside the idiocy of imaging that if a DUP figure is invited to address an FG meeting, that means that FG might merge or ally with the the DUP, still less that FG voters might consider voting for DUP candidates. You only have to say that out loud to realise how stupid it is, so it doesn't really require rebuttal.

    I will, however, point out that any kind of tie-up between FG and the DUP doesn't just require FG to forget; it also requires the DUP to forget. And the DUP are — famously — very, very, very bad at forgetting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is pure nonsense. Not only is a united Ireland a million miles away, the fantastical idea of the DUP either merging with FG or running candidates in the South is a complete nonsense. It is also a sinister attempt to paint those in the South who do not favour a united Ireland as potential DUP voters.

    It really is childish stuff to be honest. Best ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    An element of this seems to based on the fact that FG have historically been the most anti IRA party in the Dail tracing their roots to the Pro Treaty side in the Civil war. For a minority of Irish Nationalists that was an act of betrayal. The DUP are also historically very anti IRA. So the assumption seems to be that in a united Ireland that FGs anti IRA stance would attract DUP voters as a result. It's ludicrous that FG and DUP voters would drop their respective nationalist and unionist positions to oppose an organization that no longer exists(unless you count dissidents). That's before you even talk about FF, SDLP, even SF(if you only count the last 20 odd years). All hold the same position as FG and the DUP when it comes to nationalist paramilitaries at least in the present day.

    At the same time there is a contemporary political dimension to this. Suggesting that DUP voters would vote FG is an attempt to portray FG and other parties who opposed political violence as being less nationalist or not even real nationalists. Basically an attempt at 1920's in the 2020's.

    If inviting a person from the DUP to a party conference is bad, it shows a complete lack of understanding what a united Ireland would/will involve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    still less that FG voters might consider voting for DUP candidates.

    This is not a derogatory reflection but I know these people and to state that a current FG voter in Monaghan/Donegal/Cavan/Louth who attends OO marches in the north and who hangs a UJ in their community halls and churches would not be attracted to the DUP if they stand candidates in a UI is a huge stretch tbh.
    Not saying that Heather or Neale Richmond would decamp to the DUP but people from their backgrounds in the future could quite conceivably.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,525 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A lot of your observations are based on everything remaining the same tbh.

    FF and FG were diametrically opposed and things changed to the point they are now governing together. 'Old divisions' were put aside because at the end of the day power is the game.

    A UI will see a dynamic shift in the body politic once again here, it will be a case of realign/change or potentially die out.
    I can see it happening in the north as we speak and here, that will continue apace.



Advertisement