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Israel are going to start WWIII

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    IMO the right is the same as that of the Turks to have Turkey, or Algerians to have Algeria: there was no such country as Turkey, or indeed Lebanon or Syria or any of the others - they all came about after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

    Multiple attacks on various minorities led to displacements of populations, and the "solution" found was to create a bunch of new countries, the vast majority of them being either explicitly Islamic or at least with a hefty Muslim majority, with forced displacement of minorities to achieve that if need be: hence the Greek minority in Turkey and the Turkish minority in Greece basically swapped over. Like Hindus and Muslims at the partition of India.

    Now. Within that massive Muslim majority spread around the middle east, it was decided to have one Christian-majority country, Lebanon. Christians expelled or otherwise forced to flee from the other states could go there. And - a bit later on - one Jewish one also.

    Jews from other Ottoman provinces like Yemen and most of North Africa were probably not numerous enough to have been able to set up a stable state of their own (although they are about 50% of the Jewish population of Israel, so not negligible), but the second world war and the pogroms that followed, when Jewish refugees tried to return to eastern Europe, meant that Israel did finally have a population big enough to be viable, despite the best efforts of the new Arab states around it to eliminate it right from the start.

    It's true that without that immigration from Europe and Russia, Israel would likely have been as unstable as Lebanon with its troublesome Shi'a and other Muslim minorities regularly trying wield power, or would even have been overrun years ago, but history is what it is.

    Anything factually wrong in that?

    And just as I wouldn't say that you, being of Planter origin, have no right to live in Ireland, despite the fact that your ancestors no doubt displaced mine forcibly. But I'm not even going to demand reparations. 😉

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    That's you saying that. I didn't say that. I mean trouble generally.

    It's the most intractable conflict in the world that has impacted the whole world since it began and I don't see that ever changing really.

    It seems hopeless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,376 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    There most certainly are heavy whiffs of racism in much of the debate around Isreal.

    I think presently it is less an "anti-jew" sentiment but more so people are looking what's happening and it's an anti-warmonging perpetrators of genocide thing.

    People are calling Bibi Netanyahu a scumbag. It has nothing to do with his ethnicity or nationality. It has to do with how he and his country are going about "defending their country"

    Any CV that has "thousands of kids apologetically killed" isn't getting an interview from me.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If your going to base your logic on expanding a Jewish minority of less than 5% to 50%, your whole argument is based on very shaky foundations and can be dismissed as the propeganda it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭eggy81


    ..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    According to a survey conducted in 2005, 61% of Jewish Israelis identified as either Mizrahi or Sephardic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews_in_Israel#Population_in_Israel

    Of the estimated 1.5 million Sephardic Jews worldwide in the early 21st century (far fewer than the Ashkenazim), the largest number were residing in the state of Israel. The chief rabbinate of Israel has both a Sephardic and an Ashkenazi chief rabbi.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sephardi

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Israel is in control of a right wing coalition at the moment they will be voted out of office and at some point Israel will have to try and negotiate a peace process with Hamas or Hezbollah

    As the days past and more causalitys mount up it will be harder to negotiate a peace process

    Even Israel can exist in a state of endless war for years

    They depend on support from the American government



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have said this before, I do not see a soluton to the problem of Palestine. It will continue as a slow burn genocide until isreal achieves it's objective of a greater Israel. If Iran achieves nuclear weapons then I see a different outcome since they at some point it will inevitably use them. At this point the Isrealis will invoke the sampson option and that will represent the end of Europe and America. It won't happen quickly, but I do predict that in the next few decades Isreal will be the death of us all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Why on earth would North African Jews go to Russia?

    And nobody has asked the Palestinians to "solve" the problems, any more than anyone asked Hindus to solve the problems of Muslims by setting up Pakistan. It's about how to solve a problem of two groups who each want their own state. 2% of the former Ottoman Empire has been given to Jews - that doesn't seem excessive to me.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,428 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Irish people were never going to rally behind a country like Israel en masse. It has too much of a 'colonial oppressor' thing going on. Also, clearly a very right wing state and population ; another turn off for Irish people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,002 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Anyone can identify as anything they feel like. I wonder if the senior politicians and military in Israel will do DNA tests to trace their ancestry?



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Population censuses of the Levant from before the Zionist colonization show the Jewish population to be around 5% of the total population. 5% doesn't get to claim ownership rights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    not the job of israel to solve Palestinian problems either by that rationale



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Why would they go to the middle east, invade the Palestinian people and build a state over the graves of the Palestinian people?

    People talk as if there was no other choice - there was a choice, and even today the choice remains. The reality is, israel is doomed. It's prestige and diplomatic credibility is collapsed. It is a crippling weight attached to the necks of the USA, which is itself in clear decline and where more and more people are questioning why the US is so deferential to it. The north of israel is a warzone, from which settlers have fled. In the south Gaza is an open wound which israel cannot close. All its efforts in Gaza and Lebanon and the West Bank are showing israel cannot kill its way out of the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Do you understand what I said about movements of population? Do you get exercised about the rights of Hindus to reclaim their homes in what is now Pakistan and vice versa? Or about Armenians getting back their homes and their gold which they often buried in the panic to flee their homes in Turkey? Or is this only a problem when it's Jews?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Your point has zero merit.

    There was an active Zionist campaign of migration and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. It doesn't make it legitimate that they flooded and bombed their way to demographic superiority in the region. it's a **** horror story of religiously motivated violence.

    Your argument is pure facts on the ground that I simply ain't buying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭Ardent


    Looks like it's the turn of the Houthis to get a taste of their own medicine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    looks like an israeli response (coordinated with US) to repeated missile attacks on israel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    The United States, Canada, Australia, Argentina, Brazil etc etc: all purely "facts on the ground" - are you not buying those either?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    You would think the Iranian pawns would learn. Iran supplies them with rockets, which they fire at Israel then sit back and watch them get pummeled by Israel.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Iran are being very quiet - genuine question - what would things look like if Iran took the gloves off so to speak and attacked Israel directly?

    Would Iran have the army to go up against Israel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    That's a bit revisionist. The British were making promises to give the area of Palestine to Jewish people long before the Treaty of Versailles…………They were promising it even before it became their colony even.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Fun fact. Palestine was not the only area considered by the British to gift to Jewish people. If I recall correctly, there was a serious suggestion of giving them land in Uganda at one point.

    Let's just be glad they didn't offer Ireland to them………those of us remaining alive would be calling for the return of the halcyon days of Cromwell



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I think the question the Iranian leadership are asking themselves is not so much about their professional army, but more whether Iran's young people, who are already deeply disenchanted with the regime, would be prepared to continue being conscripted into an army where they were mere cannon fodder against Israel.

    They have about 190,000 professionals according to Wikipedia plus around 350,000 reservists for a total of 700,000 soldiers. The reservists are older: they might come back in? But protests/refusals to serve would likely further destabilize the regime.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    I think Iran is hesitant to have a full war as they are trying to really get onto bricks there economy no good etc. The israelies are baiting them to get thrm to try and overreact then get USA involved.

    If Russia and China then side with Iran good luck we are all fkd



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    It wouldn't be army to army. Iran would likely bombard israel with drones and missiles, either through proxies or directly. If recent events has shown anything, its that the US doesn't produce enough air defence systems or air defence missiles so israel might be able to shoot down the first couple of waves, but eventually they would have to pick and choose what hits to take, and after that they would just have to take the hits.

    Now, while that is going on, israel - and maybe the US - would be trying to carry out drone, missile and airstrikes on Iran. Apparently Iran is preparing for this by bringing in air defence systems and missiles from Russia. Russia could also supply anti-shipping missiles which would allow Iran to threaten US carrier groups.

    Now a lot of people will just assume that israel/US will just crush Iran in 24-72 hours like it was 1990 all over again. But the same people believed the US navy would crush the Houthis last year, and yet the Houthis are still imposing a naval blockade on the Red Sea and even carrying out missile strikes on israel itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,002 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Iran v Israel alone - yes

    Iran v Israel with US, UK, France & Germany - no



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Isreal showed itself incapable of winning against Hezbella 7 years ago. They will open this front and it will fester away for at least a year.

    What Isreal finds intolerable is the loss of its own cirizens and army, hence it's 100:1 doctorine, this will quickly exhaust it's domestic resources and if Harris pushes for a cease fire you can bet the momentum will grind to a halt fairly quickly.

    As Russia has found out, brute force has it's limits and Isreal will quickly hit them hard.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,903 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    How would they get there? I don’t see the Iraqis letting the Iranian Army through. Turkey letting them through also seems unlikely. The Iranian Air Force runs antiques, so that is out also.

    To answer the OP, the only nation which can really start WW3 right now is China. If they stay quiet, most anything else, be it Europe or MidEast will remain regional.



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  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If Iran achieve nuclear weapons then you are going to have to rewrite that assessment.

    Understand that the Sampson option means that if anyone threatens the existential existence of Israel they will nuke all range accessible capitols regardless of allegiances. They really are that clinical and it is the reason that everyone who understands this is so deferential.



This discussion has been closed.
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