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Dept of Finance Security Shelter cost €1,429,000

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I was involved in a design of a similar building a number of years ago. I don't remember the final cost, but I think it was around the 120k mark.

    It didn't have the ornate swirl at the top which does not appear to have any practical purpose though.

    The costs for some things like this can be eye watering because they have to conform to certain requirements. For example, I assume the glass is bullet proof, which makes sense.

    That said, 1.4M is someone taking the piss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Thats the thing though. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial quote was around the 330k mark and someone said "You mean its going to cost the same as the bike shed? Clearly you have not done due diligence on this, come back when you have a more grown up figure".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,901 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I was thinking the same thing. I very nearly included that clip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,929 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You can't put a flat roof portacabin esque structure outside such an historic building. It needs to have some architectural merit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,592 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Agreed, this is a bit less clear cut than the bike shelter but the same logical reasoning can be applied.

    The bike shelter, even with groundworks etc shouldn't have come near a spend of 40-50k and even that is exceptional. I am allowing for a lot of overheads there.

    We may not know the specifics of the security shelter of have anything to compare it to but you can bet your bottom dollar it could have been done significantly cheaper, like the bike shelter.

    As others have said the figures involved, the decision making process and the companies and individuals that the money ended up with needs to be published but they/it won't



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    A security shelter of this type commonly has the offsite backups and the backup keys to the entire building so it needs to be impervious to a brick through the window.

    You can't put a flat roof portacabin esque structure outside such an historic building. It needs to have some architectural merit.

    No-one on this thread is suggesting a portakabin, but I'd love to know the cost of that swirly top alone which serves zero purpose.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I said "esque" - as in you can't have a simple box design. Its purpose is aesthetics, which is genuinely important given its location.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    All the security shelters ive been in were simple box designs.

    It's purpose is security. The glass box in front of the House of Parliament looks well but is practical too.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My husband just finished a six month contract in one of these public bodies. They didn't have any permanent staff to do the site design for €1K. They used consultancy firms to do that work and they hired contractors to do the tricky pieces of work that the consultancy firms couldn't do. The internal staff; all middle and senior managers, didn't have a clue how to run a software project, so the consultancy firms were milking the projects for every penny they can get. He did his six months and was relieved when he finished up.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think it looks fine cause you basically can't really see it.

    Be it street furniture (e.g. choosing between bollards or planters), architecture (e.g. bridges) or even practical elements of historic settings - I don't think we should be in the business of prioritising frugality over aesthetics at all costs. It corrodes the public realm.

    I think the roof looks nice and for being in such an exposed and obvious location from the streetscape I think that's not a bad thing. This is not a comment on whether there was a gross overspend in general, and I'm sure that will come to light, but I find the suggestion that anything beyond the bare practical minimum to be a waste to be a bit depressing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Actually, we are in agreement here. I often find modern design dull and even depressing. Trains for example, if you compare trains from a century ago to that of today, the ones from 100 years ago were a thing of beauty. Lots of shiny brass, and truly something nice to look at. Other things from a similar era, Big Ben and its ornate clock face is truly wonderous.

    I admit the hut does look nice, if only we weren't talking about it in the context of the 1.5 million splurge that was spent on it.

    I referred to the top piece, simply because I can't think what else in it could have caused that price tag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    It's a scene I think of as well but at least in that the money they were siphoning off was going to fund other things. Somehow I don't think the money they are spending here is being siphoned off to fund some top secret alien research facility or any sort of facility except to line some cronies and their own pockets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,522 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Once the swirly roof is taken away, it's basically a glass box.

    There doesn't appear to be any ground breaking design on show .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭thecretinhop




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I can understand the swirly roof to "aesthetics" purposes as some above said but could it not have been just a some siding put on street facing side of the Security Shelter to give it that aesthetic look, did it really need to be the whole roof. I'd say getting a posting to do security in that hut must be one of the plum jobs in the company that provides the security or is it the Gardaí.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Gen.Zhukov


    What kills me about this and the bike shelter is the fact that the OPW have their own engineering works at Jamestown Rd.

    It's as well equipped as any other medium engineering company's workshop with steel fabrication equipment - Guillotine's, welding machines (various types), lathes, drilling machines, press brake etc etc (I know, I've been in it) - Whatever about the security hut, the bike shelter was way within their capabilities to manufacture.

    Dunno. Are the lads there scratching their hoops while these projects get farmed out or wha? - Are they only up to putting a snot of a weld on a park bench every now and then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,072 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The big consultancy firms are creaming off the large department and public sector bodies. You'll often see senior civil servants rewarded with consultancy jobs for sending lucrative projects their way and also to help respond to future procurement tenders.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Actually, I'd imagine the job of manning the hut is more of a mouldy lemon than a plum. For starters there is no loo, and considering the size, no tea making facilities. Less of a problem if it's manned by two staff, but if they put only one in, he or she won't be able to leave the post during normal hours unless relieved.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭techman1


    The Germans being a particularly good example of this with Brandenburg Airport being a scandal multiple times as bad as the NCH and their rail system being an utter joke. Or a Spanish regional authority buying trains that didn't fit the rail tunnels.

    The brandenburg example is trotted out again and again by those trying to justify this waste, its like saying ah sure even the efficient Germans waste money. But the fact that brandenburg became such a big story was that it was the exception and the Germans were horrified. The fact is that throughout Europe even in Spain they can deliver world class infrastructure, our state can't because it is grossly incompetent with no accountability, the officials responsible for this waste are shrouded in secrecy and are protected . I'm sure if it got to that stage the old gdpr excuse would be trotted out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,751 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    According to Newstalk's YouTube channel (which is apparently a thing for a radio station nowadays!)

    Screenshot_20240927_143649_YouTube.jpg

    Seems like a nonsense "reason" to me!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,929 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    We built a motorway network without any drama in fairness. Don't remember any other major projects causing as much to do as the Children's Hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭FCTwenteBenson


    121k for designing a hut and 60k for the roof………lads

    https://www.thejournal.ie/cost-breakdown-security-hut-opw-6498736-Sep2024/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    €190,000 was spent on providing a temporary structure while this one was being built. When whoever it was signed off on that bill, just for the temporary structure, the OPW obviously went "Well if they are ok on that for the temporary structure, we can clearly add a naught onto our original proposal".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    Services officer payscale. Starting salary of €27k, rising to €35k after 9 years. Not exactly good, never mind plum. Spend all day checking names against a list of approved staff and/or licence plates, sounds like a nightmare TBH, but go for it if you want.

    No tea making facilities? How big is your kettle?

    Without seeing a breakdown, not much point in anyone frothing at the mouth over this. Early indications seem to be that it was a pretty big job; demolish and remove existing shelter, install temporary one to use while the works are being done, construct and fit out new hut, dig pits for new traffic barrier thingy, commission the whole thing, plus a load of other rewiring works for the existing security system etc, all while dealing with a building as old and prestigious as Govt. Buildings…………..might even be decent value, in the end, but no way of knowing until a breakdown is furnished.

    Edit: breakdown came out while I was typing this……



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    60k for the roof seems absolutely fine and the least of the problems to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,929 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭Baba Yaga


    its a handy number for them…having worked beside a government type place with simular type security on it, if its service officers(i think thats what they call them) they change over every hour,if its gards its every 2 hours from what i remember…

    having studied pics of THE hut,there is no way on gods green earth there a mill and a half worth of anything on or in it,tis a glass box with a couple of push buttons for the barriers,a cctv monitor,alarm panels for the fire and intruder alarms and thats it,now unless it transforms into a super helicopter to whisk away the ministers and top civil servants in case of a zombie attack somebody pished away alot of OUR money…

    yo! donnie vonredactedpants,vlad putin,benji netanyahu,vic orban..you sirs are the skidmarks on the jocks of humanity!!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,809 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Yeah, from what ive looked at of the pictures, I'm wondering where the other million went.



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