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USA 2024 presidential election

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Comments

  • #1352
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605742#Comment_122605742

    Gentle Mod Note: I've observed your posts over recent weeks and they definitley come across as anti-Harris making use of similar arguments put forwards by those who come on trolling on behalf of Trump.
    You don't really engage in conversation but prefer to make a point (often a criticism of Harris or making a disingenuous comparison between her and Trump) and then ignore replies or questions about your point.

    So If you want to engage in conversation then do so but don't start moaning when others see your posts in the same light that I do.

    Lastly, if you have an issue with a post, then report it but stop with the soapboxing

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  • #1353
    Yvonne007
    Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Thanks for that. Will do.

    The only reason I didn't engage in converation on that forum (and now this one) was because any criticism of Harris resulted in having to respond to multiple posters who were quite hostile and I was being accused of trolling.

    It's a little unfair I think. Trump is a **** moron but that has been stated over and over again by multiple posters, but I see little criticism of Harris who is also flawed. And as someone without a vote or a dog in the fight, I thought I would be able to talk about it.

    I did think the Politics forum would be a better place to post but if I am being viewed as trolling then I'll step aside. I'm not here for arguments but discussion but if thats not possible, that's fine.

    I do appreciate your gentle warning though rather than just thinking the worst of me.

    Thanks again.



  • #1354
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605942#Comment_122605942

    It's a minefield.

    A couple of months ago post debate some posters were suggesting, with good reason, that Kamala Harris would be a better candidate than Joe Biden and he should step down.

    This praise of Harris and criticism of Biden attracted the usual ire, and was met not only with the accusation of being a closet Trump supporter, but also with some fairly strenuous criticism of Harris as a potential candidate from certain pro Biden posters.

    Now that Harris is the candidate, if anybody repeats those same criticisms of two months ago, they're a Trump supporter.

    FWIW I think Harris is significantly stronger candidate than Trump and will win comfortably, but that is a pretty low bar.



  • #1355
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,191 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Borked again ffs



  • #1356
    Yvonne007
    Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606156#Comment_122606156

    At least I know I am not the only one.

    Most rational people know that Trump is a maniac.

    But as far as I can see, the best argument for Kamala Harris is… she isn't Trump.



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  • #1357
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606213#Comment_122606213

    TBH I think it is very simplistic to say the best argument for Harris is just that she isn't Trump.

    It totally ignores the very valid argument that she isn't Biden either!



  • #1358
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,081 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Trump could be running against FDR, Lincoln, Washington...

    The best argument would still be they aint Trump.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #1359
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Neither appeared more presidential because one gave classicly evasive politician answers and the other raved about crowd sizes, illegal immigrants stealing and eating pets and people murdering babies after they're born is an absurd false equivalence and you should expect to be called up on it.

    That is not dismissing any criticism of Harris - there is plenty to be made. Her policies certainly seem somewhat fungible, she can indeed occasionally speak in a lot of redundant phrases etc. The problem is when you pivot to suggest these problems are essentially on the same level as those exhibited by Trump it loses all credibility.



  • #1360
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607321#Comment_122607321

    I think that's it in a nutshell.

    Harris is a standard issue US politician.

    She's a bit wishy washy in some areas of policy and as Politicians do the world over she shifts direction and avoids answering questions on areas in which she is weak.

    All the sorts of things we rightly complain about in our own politicians.

    But Trump is simply unhinged and frankly dangerous. His inability to tell truth from lie , fact from fiction along with his obvious massive failings of character and basic human decency mean that the complaints about Harris become trivial and insignificant in comparison.

    Had the GOP not failed utterly to expunge him from their ranks and had selected a functioning human being as their candidate then conversations about the kind of topics and behaviours we'll be discussing here in Ireland shortly about our own Harris and the other party leaders become relevant.

    However they didn't, so it's a binary choice between a somewhat flawed "regular" politician and an utterly appalling , delusional rapist felon.

    That isn't a choice.



  • #1361
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,852 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yeah. Its absolutely appalling that the objectively terrible candidate is roughly 50% likely to win the election.

    There are some very deeply seeded flaws in America right now.

    Ban billionaires



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  • #1362
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Harris not answering is a politician being a politician, the more focused their answer the more likely they are to alienate voters on their fringe. Every leader does it to one degree or another

    Trump is a monster who has fractured American politics to a potentially irrecoverable degree.

    They are not the same and trying to equate them is straight out of the maga playbook



  • #1363
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604894#Comment_122604894

    Both! Trump never learns anything.



  • #1364
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,795 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604885#Comment_122604885

    I'm thinking how they twice voted for Obama would suggest that glass ceiling has been broken



  • #1365
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,370 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608191#Comment_122608191

    Why? In a lot of states, waving actual Third Reich flags seems acceptable. There's even the Republican nominee openly praising white supremacists.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1366
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,795 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608196#Comment_122608196

    Yes and in many more states Obama got elected twice. Republicans will likely never put a black or Female candidate forward I'll openly admit, despite there being many of said members that will tow the party line

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607559#Comment_122607559

    Correction, there are two candidates, he's exactly 50% likely to win.

    It's notable how the "neither candidate is wanted by the public" line hasn't been re-phrased since Harris took over the candidacy from Biden which suggests MAGA have quite the hold on the news



  • #1367
    Yvonne007
    Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608196#Comment_122608196

    When did Trump openly praise white supremacists?



  • #1368
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,370 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608212#Comment_122608212

    Sure but that doesn't indicate any ceiling breaking. Nearly 350 million Americans get governed by which of two old, white men either party puts in front of them. Sure, that pattern has somewhat cracked in the past few elections but look at the composition of the Senate or the House and it's still holding strong. It's hard to think of any other country where two men as old as Biden and Trump are the only options.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1369
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608212#Comment_122608212

    That is not how probability works....

    Elections are not coin tosses (despite the phrase being colloquially used to describe a tight race). He is almost certainly not exactly 50% likely to win though determining the actual percentage is hard to impossible.



  • #1370
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,795 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608228#Comment_122608228

    To use the probability law, the 2 candidates are polling within a few % of each other in swing states so with a margin of error it's still exactly 50%



  • #1371
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,188 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608237#Comment_122608237

    If you'd left it as "its effective coin toss" or "too close to call" or "as close to 50/50 as makes no difference" that would have been fine.

    But saying it's exactly 50% (and hell, you underlined exactly) is the sort of statement which is going to get pulled up by the nerdy maths people and statisticians among us (of which I count myself a proud member). The chances of it being exactly 50.000000% at any time are very very small.



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  • #1372
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608213#Comment_122608213

    Post Charlottesville, Trump said there were 'fine people on both sides', which is still calling the people who shouted "Jews will not replace us" 'fine people'



  • #1373
    jem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭jem


    Hope that Harris wins because at least she isnt totally unhinged and wont be totally led by the nose by putin etc.

    Gas ( sad) part of it is - had Biden said months ago that he wasnt standing DEMS would have a better, more popular canidate and would win by a decent margine.

    Likewise had the GOP done the right thing and got rid of trump after jan 6 and gone away from the MAGA crowd they would probably win all 3 .

    So the world is stuck with either trump or harris with the latter being the better of a poor choice.



  • #1374
    Yvonne007
    Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608339#Comment_122608339

    Ah ok. So when he said "and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally", thats when he was praising white nationalists?

    Trump has said so many egregious statements that people can rightfully quote to make him look bad. But when they use this or the "He SaId hE WoUlD bE a DicTaTor FrOm DaY OnE" as evidence of his bigotry, it just makes the people making that argument look stupid.



  • #1375
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,370 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608339#Comment_122608339

    Exactly. It was a white supremacist gathering and he praised them lavishly.

    The standard counter is to post some link where Trump says he wasn't praising white supremacists which is what he objectively did.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #1376
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608389#Comment_122608389

    You asked he question, 'when did donald Trump praise white supremacists', I answered your question.

    Your counter was to say 'but he said this thing another time' which doesn't dispute the answer you initially requested.

    And the rest you wrote was just waffle



  • #1377
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608339#Comment_122608339

    That is not true though is it. Even hard core anti trump people have pointed that out at this stage.



  • #1378
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The more popular candidates in the Dems are waiting till next time.



  • #1379
    Yvonne007
    Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608416#Comment_122608416

    And again you are showing your ignorance.

    He didn't say it at another time.

    "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too"

    It was in the same breath.

    So the assertion that he "praised white supremacists" when he SPECIFICALLY condemned them is false.

    When there is so much to legitimately criticise Trump for, why do people insist on making up ****? It totally undercuts your credibility.



  • #1380
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608213#Comment_122608213

    You could easily find all this yourself but maybe looking at Wikipedia would be a half-start:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

    Then there are various press articles:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23484314/trump-fuentes-ye-dinner-white-nationalism-supremacy

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/laura-loomer-trump-praise-white-supremacist

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/trump-proud-boys-biden.html

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-bitter-fruits-of-trumps-white-power-presidency

    ...and there are many more if you look.

    Now, to be fair, he has also criticised white supremacists but I think only ever after he himself was widely criticised for not doing so.

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  • #1381
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608484#Comment_122608484

    He specifically condemned them and also praised them because he is utterly lacking in anything close to conviction and is obsessed with playing to his audience and can't stand being unpopular because he is a child. He was clearly told he had to condemn the white supremacists but he couldn't do it properly and had to resort to both sidesism (a familiar tactic) and reverting to claiming the crowd, who were chanting "jews will not replace us" had lots of fine people in it.

    It's like condemned the racists in the KKK but then saying it is full of fine, non racist people also.

    Also the seriousness of claiming he'll act like a dictator is not offset by him saying other crazy crap.



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