French man accused of drugging his wife and inviting men to rape her

Indeed. As would the partners of several of the others accused too, it seems. Yet heaven help any woman who dares suggest on here that maybe plenty of men who seem to be decent and normal actually aren't that decent at all, and that therefore women in general should perhaps learn to be a lot more sceptical of "normal-seeming men" - right?

Well, I'm sure the poster is using hyperbole for effect, but just on this: you may be overstating the detectives' role a tad. It was actually women who reported the upskirting to the security guard.

Now I have been the first on here to give credit where it's due to the police, but to be perfectly frank, one could equally say that I'm giving too much credit to the police just for doing their job, and that the fact that so many police forces would NOT have done as much is really not the same as saying "Oh it took a man to solve the crime for you". I think that's not a fair comment. Apart from anything else, do you know whether the security guard and the police officers were all male? I don't.

Do you have a point here or is it just more personal abuse?

Another point about this constant "It's misandry!" whinge is that even if it were, the consequences for men are just not on the same level as what women put up with - even from men who claim to live them.

As I forget now who said, When a woman says "I hate men" she just goes ahead and lives her life, avoiding men to the best of her abilities. When a man says "I hate women", it often means he will shout and abuse random women in the street, if not far far worse - hurt, rape or kill them.

And yet men seem to think the two "hates" are mirror equivalents. They're not.

Well, you said "the detectives who unearthed this crime were men" - we don't know that, and they didn't exactly unearth it. It wasn't like they were going through cold case files or something.

First, we don't even know that the security guard was male. Probably, since most are, but that's all I know - and I've followed this pretty closely. And as I said, the security guard didn't actually detect the upskirting anyway, merely responded to women's complaints (I don't think that's been posted on here before so you may not have come across it, but I've seen it said explicitly elsewhere)

Second, you assume that the detective who pushed for further investigation was male. I don't know that, so I suppose neither do you, though I have read in today's testimony that the order of events was that when he was arrested for upskirting, a psychiatrist (who was male, TBF) was automatically brought in to speak to him, and it was this psychiatrist who was immediately convinced that Pelicot was doing a lot more than that. That's why it was taken further this time, contrary to the time 10 years before that when he was just fined and nothing more was done.

That, clearly is a mistake that our society needs to stop doing, dismissing or minimising "minor" sexual assaults like upskirting or flashing.

@RMCInfo L. Layet expert psychiatre explique avoir été mandaté dès la garde à vue de #Pelicot pour l’affaire de captation sous les jupes des clientes d’un supermarché il avait confié à l’officier de police judiciaire sa conviction que ce n’était pas une première #viols #Mazan @RMCInfo  

So, we have a psychiatrist who did his job well, and a procedure that had him called in automatically it seems. That's good too. I wonder what the procedure is in Ireland or the UK for someone caught upskirting women at the local Lidl?

No worries, I realise my own post sounded a bit harsh, and I didn't mean it to be.

I just think the idea that "men saved women from this" is kind of a weak - actually deeply ironic - argument really. It's a bit like claiming, as I've seen elsewhere, that if men all disappeared, women would have nobody to protect them from danger … ehh - what danger?? 😏

But it wasn't meant as a personal attack on you.

I forgot to mention this the other day, when the accused were all briefly allowed to speak on the first day:

A 55 year old male nurse who claims to be unaware that having sex with an unconscious woman might involve issues around consent?

Does anyone else think there's a risk that somebody might need to consider the possibility that some of his patients may have been abused too?

I'm not at all convinced that the 50 will all get long sentences. I suspect there are so many that it will be seen as enough to give Pélicot a longish sentence, and the others will vary but in practice I think many of them will probably escape a severe sentence. I posted up about a judge a few years back who got a suspended sentence for planning to have his 13 year old daughter drugged and raped.

So I fear that they will feel that if they make an example of Pelicot, that will be enough. Possibly also some of the worst of the others: the one who was HIV positive, and the one who used the method to drug his own wife, whom he and Pelicot then raped about 10 times. Maybe a few others.

In comparison, the bog-standard ones will probably get off lightly. I hope I'm being unduly pessimistic.

Maybe women will riot in the streets if they do? Or is that just my misandry again? 😏