Tenant not paying rent - what to do ?

Appletreeblossom · 08-09-2024 05:41PM #1

Looking for advice -

Family member has a house with 4 tenants that come and go. When one tenant wants to move out the other tenants find a new one. Unfortunately no signed up to date lease.

House is supposed to be let as a unit but tenants have started paying their rent individually rather than a lump sum.

One tenant is now into his 3rd month with no rent paid. Does not answer texts , when met assured us he would pay the next week but didn’t !

RTB says to serve 28 day notice to pay and if no payment then another 28 day notice of eviction.

This guy is not going to pay and will probably get 5 months rent free.

He is also not paying his house bills to his other room mates.

Can his room mates force him out ?
I fee RTB are going to be useless.

Anything else to be done?

whomitconcerns · 08-09-2024 05:51PM

What does the lease say? And is anyone still in the house signed on the lease

Mr Disco · 08-09-2024 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058368157/tenant-not-paying-rent-what-to-do

is this waster on the lease? If not get a couple of lads who are handy with hurleys to pay a visit.

advisemerite · 08-09-2024 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595018#Comment_122595018

Don't do this whatever you do.

endacl · 08-09-2024 06:00PM

Family member has dug themselves quite a hole…

whomitconcerns · 08-09-2024 06:01PM

Contact all of the signers on the lease. Explain they are jointly and severely liable and that they have 30 days to rectify the outstanding rent.. let them deal with it

Red Silurian · 08-09-2024 06:05PM

As the RTB suggested give him 28 days notice to pay (you seem to have already done this a number of days ago) and if he hasn't paid in full give a 28 days eviction notice

Regardless of an up to date lease, the tenant is either squatting if he's still there after the 28 days eviction notice or currently squatting if the lease is invalid. The cops should help you kick the squatter off your private property if it came to it

There are companies out there that will "buy your debt" and chase the tenant for the money, I suggest you get one of them, if for no other reason than to show the other tenants that you mean business. By the sounds of your message you've given a softly softly approach for the last 3 months when realistically you should have issued the notice to pay in the first month

Appletreeblossom · 08-09-2024 06:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595011#Comment_122595011

No lease.

Appletreeblossom · 08-09-2024 06:13PM

I don’t own the property.

Elderly relative owns it and I agree has dug themselves into a hole!

The other 3 in the house seem Ok and fed up with the 4th tenant.

Rows Grower · 08-09-2024 06:47PM

What type of deposit did the tenant pay?

Red Silurian · 08-09-2024 06:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595061#Comment_122595061

Fair enough, I'll rephrase

As the RTB suggested the elderly relative should give him 28 days notice to pay (he seems to have already done this a number of days ago) and if he hasn't paid in full give a 28 days you elderly relative should give eviction notice

Regardless of an up to date lease, the tenant is either squatting if he's still there after the 28 days eviction notice or currently squatting if the lease is invalid. The cops should help your elderly relative kick the squatter off his private property if it came to it

There are companies out there that will "buy your debt" and chase the tenant for the money, I suggest your elderly relative get one of them, if for no other reason than to show the other tenants that s/he mean business. By the sounds of your message s/he has given a softly softly approach for the last 3 months when realistically you should have issued the notice to pay in the first month

Finally if your elderly relative can't handle their tenants they need to retire from the landlord job. Sell up and live peacefully

DubCount · 08-09-2024 07:26PM

Go to a solicitor and get them to do everything. It will be money well spent. DIY in this game is not advised and will just cost more time and money.

whomitconcerns · 08-09-2024 07:55PM

You said no signed up to date lease. Was there a lease originally given? Did they ever terminate the lease? If not then it's in a rolling lease with those signers still the tenants.

Mrs OBumble · 08-09-2024 08:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595321#Comment_122595321

Good luck with finding them if they now live elsewhere.

09-09-2024 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595321#Comment_122595321

This.

If original tenants assigned their lease as they left, the terms of the original lease apply.

Ask your relative to find the original lease, if the term “joined and severely liable” for the rent is on the lease, then inform the other 3 tenants that they are jointly liable for the full rent, and they will all be served with a termination notice. They will sort out the 4th guy pretty quick if they are at risk of being evicted for his non payment.

mrslancaster · 09-09-2024 11:34AM

Sounds messy. If different individuals have continuously moved in and out, the non-paying guy or the other current residents may not actually be tenants. They could all be licensees.

This is my reading of the rules but I could be wrong. When any member of the original four tenants left, and the remaining tenants took in a replacement, that replacement stays as a licensee until the landlord agrees to accept them as a tenant and add them to the lease. After they become a tenant, their own part4 rights kick in once they have a total of 6 months occupancy. A licensee does not have part4 rights.

However, AFAICS, the original tenants cannot sub-let or assign a part of a dwelling that is under a part4 tenancy: here

S32.

(2) The creation of a sub-tenancy in respect of part only of the dwelling, the subject of a Part 4 tenancy or a further Part 4 tenancy, is prohibited.

(3) Any such sub-tenancy purported to be created is void.

and here:

S38.

(4) The assignment of a Part 4 tenancy with respect to only part of the dwelling, the subject of the tenancy, is prohibited.

(5) Any such assignment purported to be made is void.

The tenants can only take in lodgers / licensees, and the landlord must agree in writing to accept that licensee either as a replacement, or as an additional tenant, on the lease. Landlord can refuse, eg if accommodation size is unsuitable.

As far as I can see, a part4 tenancy can only exist if at least one lessee (either an original or subsequent tenant) that holds part4 rights is still currently living in the property. If all the original tenants to the lease have left, and the individuals living there now were not added to the lease by the landlord, then they would still be licensees and the RTA rules don't apply. Is this understanding correct?

09-09-2024 11:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596831#Comment_122596831

LLs would no doubt love if that was the case, but there are only certain criteria under which a licence exists, if all 4 occupants are neither the owner/close relation, then the LL can’t claim he/she is renting under license.

mrslancaster · 09-09-2024 01:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596906#Comment_122596906

Ok. Apologies if the questions are odd but really interested to understand how this works. So many people live in shared accommodation now and residents come and go as in the OP, so it's important to know the rules.

Afaik, licensees are only lawfully in occupation as guests of the legal tenants. So say all the original signatories on a lease have vacated over time, and the lease was never updated with replacements, does the right of occupancy from the original lease lapse? I can see how it might continue when both sides agree to a change in the individuals. However, if a licensee's permission to reside comes from the tenant, and the tenant's lease has lapsed, and the landlord never accepted the licensee as a tenant, what rights does a licensee have, if any?

09-09-2024 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597188#Comment_122597188

For a renter to be a licensee of the head tenant, at least one tenancy must exist, the head tenant. And even at that, the licensees are entitled to tenancy rights after a period. So none of the circumstances exist for all the tenants to be licensees.

As tenants moved out, they assigned their interest in the tenancy to the next person, they should of course have notified the LL, but from the OP, the LL in this case wasn’t on the ball.

The most important consideration here is the terms of the original lease, and if there was a written agreement. If there was, the tenancy rolled with those terms. The important term of course is “joined and severely liable”, if the tenants argue they are not bound by the tenancy agreement and are licensees, great, inform them that as licensees they have far less rights and ask them if they would like to change their minds.

If I were the OP, I’d get the family member to inform all tenants they are responsible for payment of the rent in full each month, and as they are in arrears, they are all having the lease terminated. They can go to the RTB and let them sort it out, or, they will give the 4th guy a strong nudge to pay the rent owed.

mrslancaster · 10-09-2024 04:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597276#Comment_122597276

Thanks, good to know. I know of a house-share (4 friends) where two of the original joint tenants left and the remaining two found two lodgers. The lodgers never requested to become tenants as they didn't want to sign a lease - they were happy with a less formal arrangement where they could move out when it suited them. When the other two tenants were vacating the following year, they found another two house-sharers who also didn't want to sign a lease. At that stage the landlord had no part or responsibility in finding house sharers, that was up to the tenants. The tenants did advise him of the lodgers details (required by the rta), they collected deposits from the new housemates, and moved out. They did not give notice as they believed everything was ok since the property was occupied, rent would be paid, and people come and go in house-shares regularly,. Something similar to the OP's situation.

I know lodgers are entitled to become tenants if they request it and the landlord agrees. However, what happens if they do not want to be tenants? Basically there are four licensees in the house now, but no active tenancy, bearing in mind that a partial assignment is prohibited/void per S38.

If they can't be licencees because there are no tenants left, and they are not tenants, are they squatters? Can they be squatters if they are paying rent? Can they automatically (by default from living in the house) be classified as tenants by the landlord or the rtb in terms of notice periods should they want to vacate?

On the landlord's side, if he is happy with the four occupants who pay on time and keep the place well, but don't want to be tenants, how does that work? Where does the landlord stand as the rta says the act only applies to dwellings that are 'subject to a tenancy'. 😵

Ivor_Guddon · 25-09-2024 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595061#Comment_122595061

tell them they have to foot the full bill and arrears and wait and see how long it takes this idiot to fook off or pay up

then i'd get a proper lease done up

Crazy Davey · 24-10-2024 04:32AM

awful situation. How’s it work out?

24-10-2024 10:49AM

You cant do much but follow correct procedure which will take a while. Failure to follow correct procedure could be costly.

What could work in your favor is the current tenant stiffing the others on bills. I'm sure they are not too pleased with him and would prefer not to have to share the house with him for the next couple of months. If they were to replace the locks some day while he was out and about without your knowledge that would be awful. Make sure to buy replacement locks with cash and keep a key, offer the tenant that does it a few bob for his troubles.

Tenant not paying rent - what to do ?

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