Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

The spending on housing is currently running at 8billion p/a.

39 billion over 5 years would represent an improvement in outgoings

they must be going to cut the HAP scheme so

I'm not taking a party perspective here, but before anyone tears out of the blocks to criticize the SF plan could they at least read an article about it?

That's all I've done and yet I know that:

● 39 Billion is for social and affordable housing of which they say there would be 125,000 and not 300,000

● Doherty said there would be no increase in taxes or debt raising to fund. They would instead divert the current allocation to the states new long term investment funds to the housing budget instead.

Now...at least you're slightly more informed.

I am not a huge fan of the First Home Scheme or the Help to Buy Scheme, but they make more sense than the plan to sell houses to people at 250k but the buyers dont own the land, nor are they free to sell the property back on the open market.

They are better off having the state build these houses and getting people into an affordable long-term 10-20 year lease.

Currently we're pissing away billions and the situation is worsening.

Given that home building is up manyfold, that statement is just factually incorrect and not true.

I don't think you are debating this honestly

How does HTB make more sense?

FHS is the state taking equity in your house which at least they will get back eventually (possibly)

But HTB is just a subsidy for private houses and once it's paid it's gone, the taxpayer will never recoup it. In this respect the separate affordable housing market proposed by SF does make sense as it develops an ever increasing pool of affordable homes. That is better value for state money

Why anyone would spend 1.4 mill on a house with a small tight front drive onto a busy road, I've no idea.

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-beaumont-lodge-beaumont-avenue-churchtown-dublin-14/5828401

Your argument doesn't make sense.

You complain that the HTB is a waste, as the taxpayer doesnt get it back.

Yet getting the state to build private houses on public land, that they cannot recoup, is a better deal?
Note, I can guarantee you that the state is going to fork out more than the 250k-300k on building those houses.

As I said, I am not a fan of either HTB, or FHS, BUT they seem much better than what SF are proposing.

They are better off keeping affordable housing on the state's books, and engaging in long-term leases. Instead, we have a Frankenstein model of private houses on public land where the buyer cannot sell in an open market.

It's a metric, but by itself it cannot show whether the situation is improving or not. As you correctly point out, immigration is the cause of the issues listed. An increase in the completion of houses is of little help if there is a corresponding, or even greater increase in population.

A sensible approach to immigration would have avoided much of the problems we now face. Indeed, this has been known for years, but it has been ignored because it is politically and ideologically sensitive. Only in recent years has immigration become an openly discussed topic, and that's only because it became too large an issue to ignore.

If anything, this is why free and open discussion is vital.

over paid? i wouldnt do it for 3 times the salary.

I'm not completely against any scheme that can aid first time buyers get on the property ladder in theory.

However the theory doesn't always translate into reality. There are many homes on the 2nd hand market that were new builds 18 months ago. One development the 3 bed semi-d was 400k, purchasers with HTB paid 370k. House is now on the 2nd hand market for 515k, even returning 25k of the initial HTB payment back and accepting the asking price (won't happen) the owners are pocketing 120k.

Just one major flaw with this system.

Would be useful to have data on how frequently this occurs

It looks like extremely high cost vote buying as well as pushing rents and prices to a level where a crash is inevitable