Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

What we do know is that the Hellens really disliked Alfie.

Do we know how the Hellens and Bolgers got on?

As I see it you had Alfie and the Bolgers on one side and Sophie and the Hellens on the other side.

Leo was looking to buy land from Sophie and Sophie was allowing Finbarr to use her land for his horses, but maybe the land he was using was the commonage Finbarr shared with Sophie. That could have caused bad feelings. The Bolgers were in the process of selling up their place in Dunmanus East up near Hellens and moving to larger premises down near Schull.

"Was that picture of Leo?"

I don't know, but @bjsc posted it to show the rubbish bags taken from Shirley's car, and later commented on it when @MonkieSocks put it up again. It appears she has the same files as yourself.

Post5489;

Post 5625

Just wanted to mention that the back door is beyond the back gate of the house with respect to this route. Leo would have been able to walk past Sophie’s without interfering with the scene in any way, unless he moved passed Sophie’s gate itself. I would think that that gardai had identified nothing of note on that outside of the house, and didn’t keep it cordoned off.

Having said that I’m assuming they did keep the bloodstained back door cordoned off, probably at the gate I would think, but perhaps that’s giving them too much credit.

I think this was all a part of the “salacious” side of the reporting, champagne and exotic lovers etc. Given what we know now, it is really just trash reporting, and Bailey was happy to do it too, along with the others. People nearby were obviously happy to spread rumours too, probably including those closest to her in Ireland, which goes to show that she really didn’t have many friends here. Not many to stand up for her at least. The barman is one person who really seem to care very much about her and what happened, and the priest, I’m sure there were plenty more who didn’t talk to the press, but it never really came across that way from many of the others that did, neighbours, employees or many of the other people in the area.

Photo 3 is Superintendant J P Twomey talking to possibly Martin Malone, Taken sometime 2:30-4:30pm 23rd

Photo 4 was taken after 4pm by Dan Linehan from left, Unknown photographer (possibly Mike Browne), Ian Bailey in 3/4 length mauve jacket. Eddie Cassidy, J P Twomey.

Surely this is significant given the detailed description the article has about the other items on the table?

Understood thanks. I had misread your route map thinking he was going to Alfie’s house.

There are two different locations then which Leo probably went to, Alfie’s house to see Alfie, and Alfie’s shed to manage the horses. Both could be interpreted to be under the umbrella of “Alfie’s”. I’m surprised there was no other temporary route set up to get to the shed, even if it was more circuitous, and rougher terrain.

I personally see this pretty much the same way. The whole area can be decieving in many ways. To be frank, the South West coast of Ireland is one of the most beautiful regions of the country, if not Europe. It's unique. It's therefore understandable that one either wants to buy a property there, spend holidays there or retire there.

However one shouldn't be fooled. The area also attracts transients, individuals who do a bit of drugs here and there, happy go lucky individualists and artists and people with odd or say "unique" lifesyles in every sense. Failed marriages, somebody seeking a change, starting over in some alternative way, etc…. And then there is the incompetence of the police which in my mind also contributed that the murder was never solved. Murder would be a rarity there anyway, at least back then. They may have had a certain training but never had the experience for such a murder.

Economically the whole area offers limited choices if one is looking for a career. Property prices don't reflect the economic reality at all and the view of Fastnet Rock hardly can justify the price. Thus it's locals selling, asking astronomical prices in hopes some foreigner and future "blow in" will buy.

Even if one considers buying closer to Cork, property prices are more reasonable, have more infrastructure, shops, and also a better choice of doctors medical choices if needed. And if one likes the Mizen Head or like to see Fastnet Rock one can always drive out there, hike in the countryside as well etc…..

Don't get me wrong, I would recommend a visit to the area at any time to anyone, but if one is interested in buying a property, I'd gladly advise anybody, look closer to the city of Cork and not on any of those peninsulas.

Yes they all gave statements. Josie Hellen would let them in to do work while Sophie was away. There were also plasterers and house painters working there in Summer 1996. The Gardai gathered all their fingerprints but considering there were 7-10 house guests in months before the murder, it's not surprising there are unidentified fingermarks.

It was likely the same object. Odd that it is still missing and I'd say you are correct that Sophie took it with her to confront someone. Probably used by her and against her too. Disposed of in some stream or thicket or even in a fire unlikely to have DNA on it now anyway.

That is indeed a very good question. I've thought about this often as well.

The kind of injuries that were inflicted would indicate that the murderer himself was full of Sophie's blood. Driving a car would not have been a choice if he left blood stains inside the car. ( Bailey's/Jule's car was examined as far as I know ) He would have to clean up alone and be very careful about it. He would also have to ditch the poker / hatchet if he took it from the crime scene as it would also incriminate him.

Things would actually point to Bailey here but that's because he's the only one I know a bit more about. He had the studio, and that is a separate house close to Jule's house. He could clean up there, change clothes and possibly burn anything in terms of clothes and Jules wouldn't have noticed anything in terms of blood stains etc…

If the police would have found clothes with Sophie's blood at Bailey's studio, it'll be very convincing evidence. I am sure they searched the studio thoroughly.

Also wondering if any of his clothes were missing or no longer part of his wardrobe after the murder? Not that it proves anything but it'll be an interesting indication.

Of course the Guards went through Baileys 'Studio' with a fine tooth comb…

One droplet of Sophie's blood there would have sealed the deal…

The studio was the only place Bailey could have cleaned up in.. He was hardly going to return to the family home drenched in blood now was he..?

Note.. Bailey was drunk on whisky the night before the murder.. Not one jot of evidence has eve tied him to the murder scene.. No blood splatters, no hairs, and no clothing fibers, absolutely nothing..

The car was forensically inspected, the studio was, and the Family home too…

Not one iota of evidence was ever found linking Bailey to the crime scene.. And by Jesus the guards were looking for it!

Bailey had no part of this murder, he could never commit such a horrendous act and leave not one trace of evidence behind him, its crazy to to think otherwise.

Drunken people don't think straight.. Tell me I'm wrong?

If I had my way and deep pockets then somewhere along the coast between Courtmacsherry and Clon would be my dream location (seven heads). Close enough to Cork yet far enough to enjoy the spectacular scenery of West Cork.

Further west and you do indeed meet all sorts of quirky characters. It can be very isolated down that direction in Winter.

Series on BBC 4 starting tonight based on real events; "Sambre: Anatomy of a Crime" how the French system works. In French with subtitles.

I'm not sure anything has really been confirmed with this case.

Has it been confirmed the killer was human?! Has it been confirmed there was any killer at all?!! Some people suggest it might have been an accident, others that the crime was committed by a woman! I think the profile indicates it was a man of physical strength in their 20s or 30s, most likely local, and that it was a rage killing.