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Reporting Social Welfare Fraud

  • 20-08-2024 09:09PM
    #1
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭


    This may not be popular but I have reported someone locally on a number of occasions for social welfare fraud. Nothing has ever come of it.

    One of the couple claims disability allowance and their partner claims carers allowance. They both work in their own business which they advertise locally and also promote through social media. They employ 4 to 5 part time employees for part time work and pay mostly cash/Revolut. I know for a fact they accept payments through bank, stripe, Revolut etc, so there is a trace.


    I won’t say what the business is on here but they are making massive amounts of money and are taking advantage of the social welfare system. I have always said live and let live but this is so brazen it’s hard to believe.


    Social Welfare is something that is there for those who need it, both myself and my partner have relied on it at one point or another and I am very grateful. It’s also comforting to know that it’s there should anyone fall on hard times.


    I have reported these people a number of times over the last 2 years and yet nothing has been done. As well as making online reports I have also sent hand written letters to both DSP and Revenue, but nothing. They still continue to claim (I have seen it with my own eyes.) and the business continues to thrive.

    I have also reported this to Revenue, but I get the impression that DSP or Revenue just don’t seem to care enough to act on it. Is there anything else I can do to bring it to light?

    The system is there for a reason and not to be abused, but my reports have all fallen on deaf ears.

    Is there anything else I can do? I’ve read it’s a civil duty to report tax evasion and social welfare fraud but when nothing is ever done what’s the point?



«13

Comments

  • #2
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    How could you possibly see them being paid disability and carers allowance?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #3
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    He showed me his SW letters, and has bragged about it to others too.



  • #4
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    How do you know how much money they are making?



  • #5
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    He showed me. There is no doubt as to what they are taking in per month, plus I know for certain they are on Disability and carers.

    If I wasn’t certain or had any doubt, I wouldn’t have tried to report so many times.



  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's possible they are (or their claim is) currently under investigation. How long ago did you report it?



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  • #7
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525469#Comment_122525469

    So he's showed you his social welfare payments, and his bank or business accounts. Is the business registered?



  • #8
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    This first time was Oct 2022. I know you don’t hear anything back for privacy reasons which is fine, but nothing has been done and on it goes.



  • #9
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    Yes. They registered the business name in 2015 when they were both PAYE, I’ve checked that on CRO. He has made no Tax returns in those years, doesn’t have an accountant etc.



  • #10
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    There are two possibilities, firstly it could be on the departments to do list. There are long waiting lists for everything to do with social welfare.

    Or secondly they may have already reviewed the situation and decided the couple are not in breach of any rules. You are permitted to work on disability allowance (including self-employment) and the means test for this payment is quite generous. You are also permitted to work a limited number of hours on carers allowance. It’s possible they are correctly declaring all their circumstances.


    The third option is that he is not being truthful with you about his affairs to you. If they have staff to pay that will eat into their profits ‘massive amount of money’ is not a figure that anyone here can calculate their entitlements on. €200 is a massive amount of money to those that don’t have it. You seem to be causing yourself unnecessary stress over this. You have reported it, you’ve done your duty, get on with the rest of your life and let the relevant investigators do their job.



  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I know it's none of my business really but they could just have legitimate claims. I'm not well versed in benefit protocols but I'm sure that being on disability allowance doesn't prevent them from obtaining work.

    Income from work
    Some of your income from work is not taken into account. This includes self-employed work.

    You can work and earn up to €165 a week (after paying PRSI, pension contributions and union dues) without your DA payment being affected.

    If you earn more than €165 a week, 50% of your earnings between €165 and €375 will not be taken into account in the DA means test. Any earnings over €375 are assessed in full.

    Carers allowance is also means tested.

    How your means are assessed
    To get your total weekly means, the DSP adds your sources of assessable income (such as cash and capital) together.

    If you are single, €450 of your total weekly income is not taken into account in the means test for Carer’s Allowance.
    If you are married, in a civil partnership, or cohabiting, the first €900 of your combined total weekly income is not taken into account.

    I understand your frustration and perhaps they are fiddling the books with respect to earnings but unless you're their accountant or personal book-keeper there's no way of knowing all the circumstances of their situation.

    The DSP don't take fraud or claims of fraud very lightly.



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  • #12
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Well seems there's not much more you can do, let Revenue and Social welfare do their thing and forget about it.



  • #13
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    Appreciate the input all, thanks. I know you can work a certain amount on disability allowance and carers etc, but publicly posting your employees working for your business surely would be something that DSP would be looking into. I’ve included their advertisements in the reports.

    It’s possible that there’s a long waiting list to be fair, as regards amount of money, we are talking €3k to 5k a month.

    I think all I can do is regularly make the reports and hope something is done.



  • #14
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,005 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    To answer your question there is nothing more you can do unless you are inclined to keep sending reports.

    DSP and Revenue will not be reporting back to you.



  • #15
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    3k per month would be well inside the limits for those benefits if the majority of money is earned by the carer. Why would they not be permitted to publicly advertise their business? That’s how business works. On the face of it, it looks like they aren’t doing anything to contravene social welfare rules to be frank.

    Do you find the nature of their business immoral or is there some other reason this is bothering you so much? Are they puppy farmers or fortune tellers or in some line of business that doesn’t align with your own beliefs?



  • #16
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    So up to 10k into the household a month? Wow I wouldn’t have thought that would be within the threshold.

    I’m aware they can publicly advertise there own business, are they allowed to have employees?



  • #17
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    I don’t believe there is any rule that says they aren’t allowed to have employees, in your last post it was 3k to 5k per month now it’s 10k, which is it?



  • #18
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    3 to 5 thousand euro, theres a huge variable there? Is this the social welfare money?



  • #19
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    I said 3k to 5k, that’s what they’re each taking in, so up to 10k. So that would be within threshold?



  • #20
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    That’s nothing to do with social welfare income, it would depend on bookings and time of year hence the variable amount



  • #21
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Or secondly they may have already reviewed the situation and decided the couple are not in breach of any rules. You are permitted to work on disability allowance (including self-employment) and the means test for this payment is quite generous. You are also permitted to work a limited number of hours on carers allowance. It’s possible they are correctly declaring all their circumstances.

    This ^^^



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  • #22
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525732#Comment_122525732

    So how would you know what bookings etc, they have



  • #23
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Their income from self employment would be averaged out on a weekly basis over the course of the year, that’s how it’s calculated. I think I’m done advising on this thread, it seems you want to be told something specific and you aren’t hearing it. I don’t think I can help you any further. Look up the rules for means testing these allowances and do the sums yourself.



  • #24
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    As I have said I have seen the bank accounts. It seems you really want to interrogate me as to what I know and how I know it.



  • #25
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525802#Comment_122525802

    you said you saw social welfare letters., then you say huge money being made, but then say it's 3 to 5 k a month. That's not huge money, there's a huge variable of 2 thousand, and like others have pointed out, the numbers including for social welfare payments, are likely we within the limits.



  • #26
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    I would consider 6-10k in profits a month quite significant yes. That is not including their social welfare income.

    I’m very surprised that’s within a threshold for income while claiming any SW.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525830#Comment_122525830


  • #27
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525867#Comment_122525867

    Is this a joint business and seasonal?



  • #28
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    Yes to both. Ok say they are within the threshold, even if it means they are good at cooking the books, DSP have looked at it and worked out that everything is fine. How are Revenue not looking for tax returns for the past 9 years?

    I’ve reported this to them too. The business name was registered in 2015 and nothing submitted since?


    that’s the last one I promise!



  • #29
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭mulbot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525924#Comment_122525924

    Sole traders or limited company?



  • #30
    Cherry Blossom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    You are only required to publicly publish your accounts if you are a ltd company, and if they are a ltd company they are not self employed they will be paying themselves wages from the company.



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  • #31
    suzieQue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭suzieQue


    I honestly think they only registered the business name, not actually registered as sole trader or company.

    Surely your required to submit returns when you register a business name? And surely that’s more reason why Revenue would investigate after it being reported?



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