Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

I didn’t care whether you knew or not who Seb Coe’s father was (obviously he had a coach, but the significance of his father being his coach was far more obvious). It’s no different than the millions of other athletes who coach their children and their children become elite athletes. Sophie O’ Sullivan is another example.

The original point you were making was about the importance of genetics in sporting success, and I don’t know too many people who don’t attribute their success to their upbringing by their parents. I credit my parents with my own success in part, but a greater contribution to my success was my neighbour who practically raised me from birth. Plenty more people will pat themselves on the back for pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, and plenty more will attribute their success to more… ahem, otherworldly influences:

https://www.mensjournal.com/news/noah-lyles-cult

I am really enjoying watching OEJ display a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to sports, and not back down but just keep on digging, and digging, and digging.

Thinking that genetics plays little or no part in a physically challenging sport…my word. I don't think "head in the sand" covers it really.

Is it just down to genetics? No, but in certain sports do genetics play a large role? Hell yes.

As happy as I am for you Frank, I don’t feel right about you being left with a misleading impression of what I’ve said. I’ve never said genetics plays little or no part in success in sports, or a physically challenging sport (you added that yourself).

You asked and answered your own question with half the point I made. Coe was asked about the secret of his success. He attributed it to his parents. Obviously one does not get to choose their own parents, carefully or otherwise, so that wasn’t a secret, it wasn’t even good advice, it wasn’t in any way inspiring for anyone who was interested in knowing how he became as successful in sports as he has done.

Had he acknowledged that his success in sports had far more to do with the opportunities which he was presented with by his parents, and little to do with genetics he inherited from them, that would have been infinitely more useful. Otherwise he’d have just as likely been just another bum that could’ve been a contender when they’re watching the Olympics from the comfort of their barstool.

Guess they should’ve chosen their parents more wisely, like Coe did 😂

I’m trying to figure out how you went from the idea that girl/woman are sociological terms, to the idea that nobody was born a girl or a boy?
As a sexually dichotomous species, humans are either male or female. Those two observations don’t contradict each other, they’re different concepts in different contexts - generally within the field of biology the terms male and female are used, and within the field of sociology, girls/boys, women/men are used.

The term transgender is used to refer to people whose gender identity does not correspond to their sex. It’s not a universal term by any means, and it’s only been recognised in Western countries for the last few years. Before then the term for people whose gender did not correspond to their sex was transsexual. That term is still used in a medical context, whereas the term transgender is used in a sociological context.

It can’t be inferred from the above that nobody is born transgender because humans have no framework in which to place the concept when they’re born. They develop a concept of self from an early age, and if everything is all in the right place so to speak, they don’t have anything to question. Questions only arise when something doesn’t make any sense, or it doesn’t feel right.

Personally I’ve never been all that bothered by how anyone refers to themselves, but I’ve always understood that for any organisation, and specifically in this context organisations involved in sports, and in particular international sports organisations - they have a responsibility to uphold human rights standards. If they’re not willing to do that much, then what good are they? That’s a question I ask myself, but other people won’t ask themselves that question if they don’t have an issue with the organisations policies. It’s understandable that they’d be of the opinion that any criticism or questioning of the organisation’s policies are unwarranted.

I'm not sure what you think that is relevant to any part of the discussion. Nobody has claimed a womend without testes would ahve male test levels. Im surprised it needed to be confirmed, but glad finally figured out what the testes do and caught up to the rest of us.

Actually, this makes sense of you previous comments about trans people. Do you understand now how a fully transitioned trans person would have the testosterone levels of a child? That seems to be something you have trouble believing, and refused to believe the trans person who said that about their body.

Makes you above relegation kinda ironic.

You are saying its an absolute certainty, but at the same time saying its normal to not go through it. That's an impossible position to argue. You have proved yourself wrong.

That’s not what I said, nor was it the point I was making. The point I was making is a very simple one - the concepts of ‘male puberty’ and ‘female puberty’ as they are being used here to refer to humans with XY chromosomes who go through puberty, or humans with XX chromosomes who go through puberty, is superfluous. It’s normal for humans to go through puberty, it’s a process of human sexual development, and in a small number of cases humans will go through puberty which is abnormal, due to an underlying condition.

What is an impossible position to argue, is that humans can change sex. It’s not a position I’ve ever argued, but it’s the implication of arguing the whole ‘male puberty’, ‘female puberty’ line of reasoning. Conflate that with the use of terms man or woman, and the logical implication is that adults with what are characterised as disorders of sex development can be described as being either man or woman, from the point of view of the outside observer. That is where the inconsistency arises as it means that anyone can declare by the authority vested in themselves that other people are what they say that person is or those people are, based on their beliefs, treat that person accordingly, and ignore the fact that the person themselves is the authority on how they describe or define themselves, as Caster Semenya makes the point:

With that many categorisations flying about, how does Semenya identify? “I don’t fit into those terms,” she says plainly, staring down the lens after I mention both intersex and DSD. “Those are [the media’s] own terms. I’m an African, I’m a woman, I’m a different woman. That’s the only term I can use.” Other labels feel, to her, like a European idea to easily categorise people. “‘This one is intersex, this one is this, this one is that.’ That’s their own belief – it’s not my belief. If I have a ‘disorder’, I don’t give a **** about that. The disorder doesn’t define me as a woman. Disorders don’t make you less of a woman – you’re just different.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/28/athlete-caster-semenya-interview-im-a-woman-im-a-different-woman

That is exactly what you said. I quoted your directly.

It is absolutely normal for someone who is XY, not to go through male puberty! 😂 This is the point I was making, where plodder refers to it as a condition -

The sentence in bold is simply not true. Whatever kind of semantic argument you think you had, failed to launch.

The point I was making is a very simple one - the concepts of ‘male puberty’ and ‘female puberty’ as they are being used here to refer to humans with XY chromosomes who go through puberty, or humans with XX chromosomes who go through puberty, is superfluous.

It's is not superfluous. Male and female puberty are different biological process. The sex hormones that are released are different for either sex. That is a biological and medical fact.

What is an impossible an impossible position to argue, is that humans can change sex. It’s not a position I’ve ever argued, but it’s the implication of arguing the whole ‘male puberty’, ‘female puberty’ line of reasoning.

Strawman. Nobody has claimed at any point that you can change sex. And it in no way is implied by the terms male/female puberty. There's no logic there at all. Whether somebody has gone through puberty yet, or at all in no way impacts their biological sex.

Conflate that with the use of terms man or woman, and the logical implication is that adults with what are characterised as disorders of sex development can be described as being either man or woman, from the point of view of the outside observer. That is where the inconsistency arises as it means that anyone can declare by the authority vested in themselves that other people are what they say that person is or those people are, based on their beliefs, treat that person accordingly, and ignore the fact that the person themselves is the authority on how they describe or define themselves,

This drivel sums up why you are wrong. You entire point is based on a falsehood that you are asserting is true. There is no inconsistency with the situation that was described above. It's not based on beliefs. You are lying.

That Castor wants to identify as is their business. And they should be free to live their life socially as they feel best.

However in regards to sports, they have been determined to be ineligible to compete in the female division based on a biological criteria that applies to all. That is fair, as they have a biological male hormonal advantage. Key words in bold