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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "Group A says something, Group B shouts back, state of ya and the pitchforks come out."

    This is a reasonable summary. One of the issues troubling boards though is that Group A says something, Group B shouts back and after a while we soon see posters in Group A being warned and then banned. Group B then carries on yapping on whilst suppressing any further dissent from their views. This is facilitated by moderation.

    It would be far better to let both Group A & Group B at it, as long as they don't write anything that would cause Boards legal problems. That's where the line should be. Not how moderators want to shape threads & topics.

    Exactly, let people write their opinions, their posts and own them. Less of this interference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I've reported one poster especially for what anyone would consider trolling, constantly - all that would have to happen is that poster's posts were viewed, not even all - just those flagged. But nothing happens and you can see people getting frustrated at warnings for being off topic or trolling, when they were doing nothing of the sort - and those who ARE, have nothing done.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What we see is people making bad faith arguments, never responding to calls to support it with evidence and either repeating it over and over or moving onto the next bad faith arguments.

    The single post and then silence approach rarely derails a thread and is in no need of action.

    But I repeat - what peole have repeatedly called for is protection to make those bad faith arguments without consequence because that constitutes the bulk of their input. I am calling it out here because those posters are here arguing for site wide protection for a pattern of behaviour most would agree is a form of trolling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,819 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I have nobody on my ignore list, but I do ignore quite a few posters and immediately skim past their posts. Because I know if I read them I'll get annoyed and feel compelled to reply! But I've learned nothing I say, no matter how intelligent or articulate I think my argument might be, nothing I say will ever change these people's minds!

    This is exactly the kind of poster that I think Boards should be looking to get rid of.

    Because not everybody has your self-control, these posters do get replied to, and replied to, and replied to, and that kind of nonsense diminishes the quality of discussion on the site, and the quality of poster experience on the site, and eventually, the extent to which posters engage with the forum/site in general.

    When I see you acknowledge the existence of that kind of poster, I wonder - what do you think are the benefits of their continued presence on the site?

    To use the analogy that has been used so often - that of a pub - if there is a particular customer whose presence makes many other customer's experience worse, to the point that they stop coming to that pub for as long/as often/at all, the owner won't be long getting rid of that customer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    If we are looking genuinely at what is posters leave, the removal of a good honest woman poster in the Transgender/Sport threat in CA is a prime example. @volchitsa has posted passionately but with grace and dignity and has provided material to back up here points.

    Many people, myself included have enjoyed her posts over the last while.

    Two posters - one who's posts 100% fits the description of @Big Bag of Chips' analogy earlier - you skim through as you know they will annoy you - is trolling, not posting in good faith, using the same sarcastic snide tone over and over - and nothing.

    Warned:

    This is not feedback, this is you trying to shut down posters you don't agree with. Cut it out.



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    I'd suggest taking those concerns to the mods of the forum either by reporting the posts or PMing them, it does nobody any good to start airing dirty laundry on this thread.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Well, if you consider it to be trolling, then you report and you don't engage with that poster… it's not rocket science in fairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Thank you - I didn't think about that, and no disrespect was meant. I've discussed that now.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    If everyone ignored them they might just give up. I don't mean put them on ignore unless you want to, just scroll on by and don't engage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Easier said then done, you can ignore it and then one slip up and you are gone.

    Surely Mods must take into account posters who have very high counts for reporting others.

    If they are reporting people at a high rate they are either very sensitive or playing a role in the threads that is causing those issues.

    In my experience and from reading threads they usually are both.

    It is not even subtle, most regulars know who they are, maybe they are great at keeping inside the rules while ruining every thread they step into.

    Getting rid of these posters will make life easier for Mods.

    We are all human and it's easy to say ignore it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭Deisedarren


    not to sure if others have the same problem,

    i dont have permission to get into the regional Section,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,370 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    To be honest the best thing I ever done was to put certain posters on a list that I will not engage with.

    I don't want to put them on an ignore list because I like calling them out when they are posting lies and misinformation.

    I just will not respond when they come back with their efforts to get you banned.

    I will probably slip up sooner or later, but I find I have improved my posting style by ignoring them.

    Ideally they would be sanctioned, but ignoring them is the best option if not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,555 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    If a person reports a lot, they're at fault? They could equally be choosing to not engage with the posters who are causing the problems and reporting clear rules violations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭Deisedarren


    Thanks

    its funny i can get into the East, Midlands and Midwest one but not the others 🙈



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,817 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    This narrative is being pushed by a “certain cohort”. The issue isn’t them breaking the rules with how they post, and getting sanctioned, for this, it’s the people reporting the posts that, they think, are the problem.

    This is, even, after the mods/admins have, specifically, requested that users report any post they feel is in “breach” of the charter/rules.

    EmmetSpiceland: Oft imitated but never bettered.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,150 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    The thing about is that certain posters on the site, as you say, are great at staying inside the rules while ruining every thread etc..

    But, staying juuuusst inside the rules, is still staying inside the rules. Okay their posting style might annoy the shyte out of people, but if they are still staying inside the lines then what can a mod really do.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,020 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This is how it becomes a mess though, we can't just let people at it.

    Group A will claim the moon is made of cheese. Group B will say that it is not, and provide factual counterpoints. Group A will ignore this, and continue to say the moon is made of cheese. Eventually Group A will be told to stop saying the moon is made of cheese. Group A will continue to say the moon is made of cheese, though they'll reword their posts ever so slightly as they think this will avoid them getting in bother. Group A might mention that they chatted to a guy once who apparently overheard a guy talking in Lidl and that guy went to the moon and according to him it's a big block of cheddar. We'll get a few more anecdotes on top of this. Group A will end up warned and banned as a result.

    Group A will then open feedback threads saying opinions are being stifled, and that they should be allowed to put forward the dissenting opinion that the moon is in fact made of cheese, that their view should hold equal weight. In their view, everyone else should have to tolerate their nonsense.

    Both sides of every discussion do not need to be given equal weight by mod, nor should they be let at it, this just ruins the place for everyone else trying to get involved. Make your point, it gets countered, then you move on. This is how discussion works. Ignoring what the other person is saying and continuing to make the same point over and over and over again is soap-boxing, and I am sure by this stage you are familiar with this.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,608 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Your first 2 paragraphs contradict each other, just don't engage at all if you know it's a waste of your time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,598 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Some of them are not staying inside the rules, they blatantly engage in uncivil posting and attacking posters and not the post, however their conduct is not punished.

    Its not even subtle and they post in this manner on a very regular basis, there is only one logical conclusion as to why this is tolerated.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I am not sure where I said reporting someone is wrong.

    If a poster is reporting people at a much higher rate then normal, then it's worth looking into if that poster is a reason for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Not a contradiction at all, it's fairly clear.

    When posters are spreading lies and misinformation, I will point it out.

    When they respond I simply ignore them and avoid getting dragged in like they want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Well that's when a bit of common sense comes in, tell them to improve their posting style.

    I don't believe for a minute Mods don't know who these people are.

    It must be annoying for Mods when they log on and see a backlog of reports from a poster, get them to improve their posting and the Mods will have less work to do.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Eh… no. There's no lists of serial reporters or anything like that, why would there be? Admins and mods alike have stated many many times that if you have an issue with a post, do not engage with them and report it.

    The fact of the matter is that there are too many posts in forum like CA for mods to read every single post of every single thread so if people refuse to report this obvious trolling it's going to get missed.

    Like I said before when I modded in CA here was my exact process - check reported posts forum, and the most recent report unactioned by a fellow mod. Click into the post which takes me to the thread. Read a page or two to get some sort of context if required (some actions are easy and straight forward like hate speech, attacking another poster… others are more subtle and nuanced). This process would then be repeated possibly 50, maybe more times a day by just me.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,557 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    People have been pulled up for abusing the reported posts function. A poster reporting a lot of posts is not necessarily abusing the function, if the posts they are reporting are questionable.

    Posters who abuse the function are usually posters who have received a warning for something and then proceed to search every single post for even a hint of off topic, uncivil, breach of charter etc and report each and every one of them.

    They're quickly dealt with. Moderators have enough to do looking through the genuine reports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,819 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Tbh, if a mod is in a postion where they are thinking that 'this poster is ruining every thread but just staying inside the rules', then the rules need revising. 'Ruining threads' should be something actionable.

    Post edited by osarusan on


  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whole issue of "ruining a thread" is extremely dubious because it's often the troll who perceived the offense against their trolling. It's certainly way above the pay grade of posters to be calling out anyone else for "ruining a thread". Leave it to the mods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,150 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    "Ruining a thread" is highly subjective though. It could be a difficult square to circle if you're looking in greater stringency in the application of rules that will always be highly subjective.

    Just to be clear, I think people who post in bad faith and make attempts to rise people have nothing to be proud of, but, sometimes I feel, as an example, if Poster A frequently posts in bad faith, but knows the art of staying inside the lines -and poster B in response, who posts in good faith in opposition, but can't stay inside those lines - then I feel maybe there's an onus on poster B to display a bit of self control too and not always rise to the bait.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,596 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    To be honest, if someone is ruining the thread while staying within the rules, there isn't much I can do. It's not as easy to spot and any sanction can be appealed in DRP. The only reliable tactic was to let the troll do their thing, overstep, and then apply a sanction. The way threads can be ruined vary enormously. The thing isn't putting a stop to it, it's doing so in a manner which is consistent with the rules of the forum and of the site.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Someone "ruining" a thread can be looked at as low level trolling.

    That may result in a nil point warning indicating their behaviour is not acceptable and escalation for subsequent examples. They may have half a dozen posts before that which we may consider do not warrant action because there is nothing specific to point to.

    Of course we can then get accused of bias if we do not treat a single example from another poster the same.



This discussion has been closed.
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