(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

Tell me how

This thread generated quite a bit of discussion back in March/April. This was the final post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024068#Comment_122024068

It's now over 3 months since that thread was closed. I think that's a reasonable timeframe for some discussions and considered thought to have taken place. Could someone in a position to comment from the inner-workings of Boards please provide an update.

Personally, I am interested in the following;

• What internal discussions have taken place with respect to the thread
• What do the internal group feel was the main points communicated on the thread
  • Issues
  • Solutions
• What is the internal teams view on the issues identified? Agree/Disagree?
• What are the internal teams views on the proposed solutions?
• Aside from what was discussed on thread, what is the Boards thought process in improving the site experience both in terms of quality, and quantity.

I was concerned as the above thread developed that there seemed to be a 'Lets build another lane to solve the traffic problem' type of mindset about the site as in everything is fine, lets keep doing what we're doing but as a review and discussion was promised, I think its time for an update.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058361419/site-is-a-graveyard-how-can-boards-save-itself-any-update

I asked that question a while back and the response is in post #6066 in this thread for what it's worth.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058198814/welcome-to-the-new-boards-ie-platform-version-1-0

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427060#Comment_122427060

Thanks for the update.

I hope to get a bit more from them in relation to the original thread because that thread focused on user experience as a consequence of conversations flow and in particular, mod engagement.

All these points are of a technical focus.

Big Bag of Chips

There is always ongoing work in the background. There is a thread in the moderator forum asking for feedback from the moderators on points raised in that original thread.

We are doing a complete overhaul of moderators across the site. Identifying inactive moderators and identifying areas that are short on moderators. As we go through this process we are also identifying areas that aren't particularly active and looking at merging forums that were originally split off when traffic was higher. This is not something that can be done by ticking a tick box, so it will take time and consideration from Boards.ie management in how best to organise the site. It's a slow process and long overdue but it was kick started by the feedback in that thread.

"Mod bias" along with not enough moderation in some areas have been discussed. This was one of the biggest complaints on the thread. Low level trolls, problem posters and how to deal with them is an ongoing process. Moderators are encouraged to hand out warnings, not just 0 point notes, but warnings that accumulate and can eventually result in a temp siteban for posters who consistently disrupt threads. I think there has been an increase in temp site bans as a result of this. We'll never make the site a utopia where everything is perfect. People are entitled to disagree with each other, with mainstream thinking etc. People can also be angry and aggressive in tone on the internet. So this is something that will never be "fixed". It's an impossible task. But it is one that will be ongoing, and with more active discussion in the background problem posters will eventually be identified and dealt with.

Some very good points were raised in that thread and all are being looked at.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427727#Comment_122427727

Maybe have more updates like the one you just posted to keep people from wondering if it's all just forgotten about?

yagan

From that thread the suggestion that stood out for me to counter mod bias and the perception thereof was that mods would have a separate profile for modding and a seperate one for contributing like everyone else.

We'd only every see the mod profile when modding is required.

drury..

Who is this internal team ?

Flinty997

From that it seems the only action is moderation of the moderation. Can't say I've noticed any changes. I've no way of seeing an increase of site bans, and I just avoid the forums with the most problems. You reap what you sow.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427755#Comment_122427755

IF an individual mod has a bias they'll have that regardless of what username they're using.

It would also be easy to post a mod warning on thread under their alt account, having to switch between accounts on a thread is a big ask for volunteers. Once a mod does that they're going to be treated differently on thread, you see a lot of "You're a mod, you should know better/You wouldn't get away with that if you weren't a mod" on some threads.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428002#Comment_122428002

That's what already happens.

I like the suggestion because it allowed volunteer moderators two hats so they can participate like anyone else without being accused of a mod bias.

I'd imagine it would defang a lot of thread drama. It was a suggestion from another forum that reportedly worked well.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427727#Comment_122427727

Thanks for responding to this as you.

It still raises some concerns to be honest. I'll respond in more detail later today or over the weekend so please don't shut down this thread for now.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427755#Comment_122427755

That makes no sense to me anyway

I don't see any issue with mods posting as themselves

Having 2 identities seems equivalent to calling the boss by a different name out of hours

flyer_query

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427992#Comment_122427992

my reading between the lines of the mods who replied to that thread was that if they had to mod in secret they wouldn’t do it as their reward for dedicating the hours each day to this forum was the mod badge.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428320#Comment_122428320

The problem, is that if a moderator shows a leaning in a particular direction on whatever topic they post their opinion on that is within their responsibility of moderation.. That is used as a stick when they then act as a moderator to some of those of a differing "opinion". Whether real or perceived, the user then is the victim of moderator bias first and not a victim of their posting style.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432009#Comment_122432009

Modding in secret is ridiculous. Forums need to be seen to be policed and rules enforced.

If it takes hours there's something wrong with the admin tools. The reporting system has been broken for years. Its the same problems but no one's fixing them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432018#Comment_122432018

You could argue the reasons all day. End result people are driven out of threads, forums and boards.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428296#Comment_122428296

Thats only partially true. No metrics on it, so can't say for sure. Can only talk about personal experience. I see experienced posters and new posters not staying. I suspect due to their experience both technical and quality of content.

osarusan

I did a survey for work a few weeks ago, one of those 'employee wellbeing' things.

One of the early items for me to strongly/moderately agree/disagree with was 'I believe changes will take place as a result of the data collected in this survey', to which I selected 'Strongly disagree'.

It is no different here. The same problems have existed in CA since its inception, and existed in AH before that. We've had the same discussions and feedback threads again and again, and nothing has changed. More recently, with the site overhaul, we've seen good posters drifting away, and the problems becoming more condensed.

Whether through a lack of knowledge on how to remedy things, or a lack of effort, or just a lack of interest/care, it'll continue to slowly circle the drain.

Backstreet Moyes

I haven't seen anything different, to be honest.

I still see on almost a daily basis anyone with a new account who doesn't align with the handful of posters who own CA get called a rereg and abused.

It's not really a great way for the site to grow.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427727#Comment_122427727

In other words, "We're still looking into it".

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432236#Comment_122432236

Yes.

It's a live site, with constant traffic. We are ALWAYS looking in to it. As I said above it's never going to be "fixed" and all problems ticked off and tucked away neatly. It is a constant ongoing process.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432201#Comment_122432201

The new accounts on CA that sonehow seem to be intimately familiar with long running threads?

And in some cases in their first few posts are tagging longstanding users?

And even openly admitting to being a rereg of a just banned account?

Credit where credit due to the admins and CA mods for their trojan work blitzing those trolls whether it was on the Russia, Tubridy or US politics threads. Must be a PITA for them but they stay on top of it.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432289#Comment_122432289

Thats disingenuous, nobody said all problems needed to be solved. They simply asked if "anything" had been done.

"Looking into it" is what happens before anything is done, they were asking what actually has been done.

Inactive moderators and merging forums, these things were brought up literally years ago. Its been years but apparently we're still in the "looking into it" stage. Beasty used to talk about the process for appointing new mods that apparently takes years to complete.

The soccer forum is currently on its 3rd annual feedback thread since the site change, the fact the forum is dead on its arse is yet again being highlighted but for the third year in a row the response can only be summed up as "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas".

You know who talks about ongoing processes? People who don't have anything to report.

Big Bag of Chips

It is constantly moving.

Moderators: I am currently, personally, going through every single forum and subforum in every single category updating the moderator lists, identifying inactive moderators, contacting category moderators who are in turn contacting moderators who are deciding whether they want to remain active, become active again or want to be demodded.

It is an ongoing process. It always will be. It hasn't been updated in a long time. I am now doing it. But it is a very slow process. There are 100s of listed moderators in 100s of categories.

The process of appointing new mods does not "apparently take years". But it does take time to identify potential candidates, put them forward for consideration and then offer them the role. Lots of posters decline the role. So we then have to identify other suitable candidates. New moderators are generally picked from prolific posters in a forum, but the posters who post the most won't necessarily be suitable to moderate the forum.

Reregs: We can't stop people registering. Posters are entitled to close accounts and reregister if they wish. If a poster has been banned and re-registers they are generally caught very quickly. Either by the Admin/moderator teams or by regular posters spotting them.

I was very active on that last thread, and I have been working in the background addressing the major points raised. Some moderators are happy to just stick to moderating their own forums and don't get involved in much discussion outside that. Some moderates are very interested and active in the moderator forum and have good ideas and suggestions.

Work is being done. Moderators are being encouraged and supported to take a harder line with troublesome posters. Problem is there will always be more problem posters than there are moderators. So once one is dealt with another 3 or 4 come along, so it's easy to think nothing is being done if you're looking in from the outside.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432009#Comment_122432009

I've absolutely no idea where you got that impression from and I was active on the original thread! 🤣🤣

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432474#Comment_122432474

On the subject of reregs, I understand the valid reasons for closing accounts, maybe because personal info was overshared previously, or access has been lost to the account.

However, I think posters who rereg and return to posting on long running threads, threads they were very active on under their 'old guise', that should be viewed with suspicion, and comes across to me as a bit dishonest.
I have seen users do it, not necessarily to avoid sanction, but their previous account on the thread was caught out in a porkie, or absurd argument.

Not sure what the solution is there… perhaps a duty there to notify mods… but I do think it should be approached differently to a re-reg done for sincere reasons.

And if posters on the thread call attention to this, it should not necessarily be viewed as back seat moderation, because the re-reg was done not to avoid moderation, but for underhand debating purposes.

Norrie Rugger Head

Given how few of us there are, the old site could probably handle the traffic again…

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432083#Comment_122432083

Argue the reason? If you want to address user numbers then the reasons are important. Alot of users or their accounts at least are driven away because they dont want to be moderated in the first place.

Take during the abortion referendum. The number of users wailing about being picked on and being silenced because they were anti abortion. Yet afterwards we found out from one of the mods/cmods that in fact they (mods as a whole) had made a decision not to hold users of that persuasion to the usual posting standards as they would have banned so many that there wouldn't have been any/very few dissenting voices left.

Big Bag of Chips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432009#Comment_122432009

Believe me, if we had the option to mod anonymously under an umbrella "Boards.ie: Moderator" and not have to individually deal with annoyed posters who have been warned, I'd say the majority of mods would jump at the idea!

Moderating itself doesn't take that much time, delete a post, warn a poster etc, it's all the followup over and back PMs that take time. Boards has always been more of a community where moderators are posters too and accessible to everyone, unlike some boards where posts/threads are just deleted by an anonymous moderator with no option of discussion or dispute resolution.

If anonymous moderation was to become a thing that would be the format. I can't see too many here being happy with that setup!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432822#Comment_122432822

Its all the same thing, consistency the lack of.

Flinty997

I don't see the purpose of these threads. What changes.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122434011#Comment_122434011

I guess my post went over your head

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427727#Comment_122427727

As I said, I wanted to respond to this in a little bit more detail than just acknowledging your post. Although this is being said to you, it is for 'Boards' or whoever it is are the key influencers within the organisation.

As I said in my OP here, my concern on the original thread was that I saw a lot of 'things are fine, let's just keep the same was what we are doing' and your post here confirms that that is the case.

Moderation absolutely is influential… for a long time it has trended to be dictatorial and personality focused rather than facilitating the ethos of the platform 'Now you're talking'

But it is not just moderation, I feel there is opportunity for Boards to promote or sustain conversation in a way that I have rarely see them do. The focus of internal conversations, in as much as we can see them, seems to be 'How do we stop people complaining about mods.' And that's it!

The original thread title referred only to activity on the site, the conversation did go in to moderation and it is important, but there is way more to it than just that.

The key players in Boards have seemed intent for a couple of years now of prioritizing non-conflict threads, that's it, no matter the angle you're looking at a particular discussion from, the priority is peace and quiet and if that means there's only 4 people in the conversation rather than 20, than so be it. It is in itself self-defeating. I've seen close to zero attempts at promoting conversation in my time here with the 'Ask me Anything' threads being the sole thing that has me saying 'close to zero' rather than zero.

Even the fact that the final post on the original thread stated 'We'll post updates here' and yet a few of us have had to go digging for updates months later just leaves me feeling negative about the chances of the site to be what it could be. Some people have alluded to changing engagement styles and demographics, which is the case in the broader sense, but there's always going to be people who enjoy the longer format style of interacting on line, this could be a place for them if it figured out how to focus on attracting them rather than alienating those that do drop in or spend time here.

Quantum Erasure

Another thing that might promote conversation is not closing 'IMHO' threads in CA / IMHO on the basis that they're not 'current affairs'

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122436040#Comment_122436040

I guess mine went over yours.

I think we've all been there when certain posters get away with blue murder for extended periods, or certain sides of a discussion. While other people have the mods on them like a ton of bricks, for very little, zero tolerance in fact.

While I have every empathy for the mods and I hear what Bag o Chips, is saying. I don't see changes, and I stay away from the threads and forums where perhaps I might. I avoid certain mods and their forums also. Life's too short. The site is so buggy it's unusable at times.

I think "Tell me how" OP about revisiting the main complaints and asking what progress is a valid question.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437173#Comment_122437173

I'm not sure which part of my post was difficult for you. Because it has clearly gone over your head, or else you are just ignoring the parts you don't want to hear.

As I already pointed, alot of the moderator "bias" is in fact just moderation.

Too many posters believe their "opinion" should be listened to without question and if it's not they play the victim.

If people respond to them, they are being ganged up on. Play the victim

If sanctions aren't 50/50 it's mod bias. Play the victim

Even in the instance I provided where the moderators bent over backwards so as not to moderate them, they were still the victim of moderator bias. To them it's not their posting style, not their inability to debate on facts, etc etc. the only way they are sanctioned is because the mods are out to get/silence them.

They want boards to be like twitter or Reddit, where they can have a bubble and when it doesn't work out like that, guess what? Play the victim

LambshankRedemption

Can anyone explain to me why the quote button only worls 50% of the time?

You click quote, it scrolls down to the "Leave a comment" field but no quote. So you have to scroll back up, find the post you wanted to quote, click quote again, and it works.

It's very annoying.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437288#Comment_122437288

Theres a litany of basic functionality broken.

I would say the interaction between the site software and Android spell correction mangles nearly 100% of all of my posts often needing multiple edits to correct the mistakes. Its very frustrating.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437265#Comment_122437265

There's a certain irony in complaining about not being listened to while complaining about people complaining about their opinion not being listened to.

If you believe there is no issue with moderation I'll agree to disagree. There are also a litany of technical issues.

Flinty997

Have to say it's laying on it bit rich putting the blame of the forums being quiet on modern youth or society etc, when even the oldest members of the site are complaining about basic functionality not working. Thats before you get into more subjective topics.

Though I will agree there's a certain mob mentality to reddit, that I dislike. A certain tabloid approach to discussion these days.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437419#Comment_122437419

Same here I can often need many attempts to post something. Eventually I just give up.

The Nal

Not being able to copy and paste different parts of posts was the big change that saw a lot of people leave/stop posting. Huge fall off after that change.

bartkingcole

Maybe send a weekly email to registered uses on hot topic threads. This is something that Mumsnet does and it does attract traffic. I don’t know of the sign up conditions permits this!!!

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437474#Comment_122437474

Im going to echo this. Multi quoting being absent is a major missing feature, Quote working 50% of the time Ive already mentioned. I really miss the roll eye emoticon. You don't realise how much you use something until its gone. I dont know if its related to the upgrade, but Ive noticed an increase in the wrong topic ending up in the wrong forum.

I a member of multiple other fora spanning a wide range of subjects, and they have not seen a mass exodus as a result of modern youth or society. It was the month or so of teething issues, followed by month on month of basic functionality missing that caused people to stop coming here.

After that, its the bad pint of Guinness vicious cycle. 4 men go into a pub, order a Guinness each, it arrives but its bad. Maybe it was a dodgy barrel, or the pipes werent cleaned properly, either way, after one, they leave. A few more people, come in order a pint, but leave after the one. A keg holds 88 pints and usually in a busy pub, at least one keg would be used in a night, but because people keep having one and then changing to something else or leaving, it goes 2 days, or 3. The place gets a name for selling dodgy pints. That barrel is replaced, the pipes get cleaned, but the damage is done. People don't go there any more, which now means a barrel lasts for more than a week by which time its gone stale and really not nice at all.

I used to frequent the Information Security forum, just like the pub, the last post was from a week a go. So people come on here, but its a ghost town. Some forums, the last post is from months ago. They assume the site is desserted and leave.

nachouser

The reality is the site has one employee and a bunch of volunteers. I would imagine it's run on a shoe string budget at this point, so expecting anything other than what we currently get to experience is probably not realistic. A few bug fixes, but that's about it. At the end of the day, the owner could wake up with a hangover one morning (I've no idea if they drink!) and say to themselves "Meh, I'm done." and the site would be over.

The moderation complaints will always happen because some people think they are always right and their opinion should be allowed, unfettered and if that's not the case then it's clearly because of moderator bias.

IMHO, boards is full of useful information, fun threads and frustrating ones in equal measure, but it's completely down to people who volunteer their free time that the thing exists. Like it or lump it. I've had about 14 mod warnings in a little over a year, so I'm as bad as anyone else:-)

The bug fix thread is still ongoing for anyone not aware of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058199223/just-bugs-missing-functionality-reports-no-griping

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437552#Comment_122437552

I'm not sure being more like Mumsnet will help Boards tbh. 🤣

ETA - Bringing back the most thanked feature might help, but it's not possible on Vanilla. Mark used to do a round up every month too when Niamh was also here, now it's Mike on his own, and he's part-time, but he's busy raising tickets with Vanilla.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437700#Comment_122437700

This thread is now just repeating the previous ones. The same people with the same moderation complaints. 90% or more of posters never have any interaction with Mods. There are dozens of forums, with copious threads, ticking along merrily with good discussions, queries & advice, information and craic. 46 threads have multiple posts in the last 30 minutes. It's hardly stagnant. People shouldn't judge the entire site on just the forums they generally use.

It's not perfect but it's still an excellent free resource.

Witcher

The duplication of threads in CA is becoming ridiculous, especially US politics related.

On the front page of CA at this moment we have:

• Kamala Harris v Donald Trump
• Donald Trump Megathread
• Assassination attempt on Donal Trump
• ????? Vs Trump
• And a Joe Biden thread

I mean...at this rate what is the Politics forum for? There is one US Presidential election thread in Politics at present which is what should be in CA and have the multi thread, topic variety in Politics.

It just smacks of the lack of attention being paid across the site generally. One time those threads would have been merged, closed or moved. Now it just seems to be do as ya like on CA.

I've seen lads start a thread on a topic and an existing, active thread on the same topic could be right at the top of the thread list. You'd have gotten a card for that laziness 2-3 years ago.

It also leads to problem posters jumping from thread to thread to avoid threadbans and ultimately making a mess of possibly 5 threads with their shítposting.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438029#Comment_122438029

Actually, an American subforum wouldn't be a bad idea at this stage.

It was suggested before, and I disagreed with it at the time, but CA is full of these now.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122438029#Comment_122438029

These two in particular are identical in scope

• Kamala Harris v Donald Trump
• ????? Vs Trump

The others in theory have different topic but unless thats moderated it just becomes a sprawling free for all... and threadbanned posters moving onto the other one and carrying on as before.