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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭DaithiMa


    "IPAs, like any newcomer might, simply didn't understand the payment system."

    Ah come on now, most IPAs travel halfway across the world, usually through multiple European countries, and you are suggesting they don't understand how to pay to get on a bus or train? You are surely having a laugh with this argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    That's just one factor though.

    A serious look at something like this would also consider demographic overrepresentations, bias in reporting, and how these categories are defined.

    I've had a quick look at Finland's definition of sexual offences and it does seem to include harassment and offences where no physical contact took place.

    https://oikeusministerio.fi/en/sexualoffenceslaw

    I'm not for a minute defending catcalling or verbal harassment, I find it abhorrent but I do think it's quite likely that people from different cultural backgrounds might be overrepresented.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    I'm not quite sure what you mean.

    Are you suggesting that the people from a different cultural background, simply weren't used to not being sexually abusive?

    What other reason would there be for a 13x over representation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I don't think it unreasonable that people in a foreign country might not understand a train payment system. Especially if they don't speak the language.

    I reckon I'm guilty as charged of this particular type of 'fraud' on more than one occasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm saying that it's quite possible that people from other cultural backgrounds might be far more likely to be guilty of verbal harassment which would skew their representation in the overall category.

    Then there's the other factors such as demographic overrepresentation, bias in reporting etc.

    This is an old report but I think quite interesting as it shows Irish people as twice as likely to commit violent crime than people from other part of the world (including a middle eastern country), and Irish people as one of the most violent nationalities in the world.

    https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi117.pdf



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    This also happened

    Norway Offers Migrants a Lesson in How to Treat Women - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

    But sure we are only getting all the good ones anyway, scamming our joke of an asylum process and then being allowed to stay because we can't be bothered dealing with anything.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    So you accept the fact that the mass importing of people from other cultural backgrounds will likely increase the risk of sexual assault (even if "only" verbal)?

    Yet you still advocate for it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I haven't seen non-contact harassment referred to as 'sexual assault' other than by yourself and that other poster.

    Nobody's being imported here.

    And I see no evidence whatsoever that changes in asylum policy would positively impact crime rates. I would actually suspect that moving towards a 'harder' approach, which might see people living undocumented or in greater poverty, would in fact lead to increases in crime.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Ok, I will "scale it back" to simply sexual harrassment.

    Do you think that allowing thousands of undocumented men from cultures you agree would likely increase the amount of sexual harrassment claims from our citizens is a good or a bad thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    I thought, according to you, that part of the attraction of here is that it’s an English speaking country and ‘the second highest GDP in the world’ to increase their chances of getting a job but now you’re suggesting that some can’t speak basic English



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    The report I saw referring to fare-dodging as 'fraud' was from Germany I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    If the alternative is pushing people towards living undocumented or in greater poverty, where they might commit more serious crimes, I think it's the best option.

    I think this kind of verbal harassment, which I don't think we should tolerate at all, is necessarily even a criminal offence in Ireland.

    As many of the anti-immigration 'activists' are aware we're quite lax here on a lot of appalling behavior here. A lot of behaviors only meet our criminal definitions if repeated between individuals. This includes sexual remarks but also recording people coming and going to work, making vague suggestions as to knowing where people live, showing up outside their houses with balaclavas etc.

    I don't think we should tolerate any of it to be honest.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Well at least you are consistent.

    I think it's a disgusting attitude to have but you are entitled to it.

    You seem to care more about undocumented asylum seekers than you do about the native population.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I think it's in all of our interests that people coming here are treated with respect, fairness and dignity.

    I think it's especially true that people who will be living here in the longer term are given every fair chance to live a happy and productive life. Nobody should be striving for a 'two-tier' society.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    If someone is squatting by the side of a canal and has travelled through many other safe countries since they "fled from persecution" or someone intentionally destroys their documentation when they arrive in Ireland to hide their identity, I do not respect them.

    If someone comes to Ireland and sexually harrassess natives because of their cultural background, I do not respect them.



  • Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's shocking yet unsurprising. And it will get worse.

    The residents of these sites are often segregated according to nationality to reduce the risk of conflicts, yet we're expected to accept that they will integrate well into wider society.

    The main thing to remember is that you're a racist if you have a problem with dangerous government-sanctioned shanty towns being put up overnight on your doorstep 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I don't think we should tolerate verbal sexual harassment regardless of the cultural background of the offender.

    I think our harassment laws in general are not fit for purpose. Whether the victim is a woman minding her business walking down the street, a worker going to their job, or an asylum seeking trying to live peacefully in what would constitute a home, there are instances where people simply aren't protected as they should be.

    As for 'safe' countries, there's really no such thing. The concept exists to determine some countries as generally safer than others. It all depends on the circumstances. For example, if I was walking around a UDA in Belfast area wrapped in a tri-colour shouting 'Coolock says no' I'd be quite safe. If I were to shout 'refugees are welcome' it would be a different story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭engineerws


    As for 'safe' countries, there's really no such thing

    That says it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭whatever.


    You yourself shared a UN report that showed the prevalence of rape, murder and violence committed by refugees was exponentially higher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭star61


    So we should make allowances for the behaviour of those from other cultural backgrounds. That verbal sexual harassment is .. …..not even a criminal offence. The Irish are some of the worst types of people at home & abroad and there should be no allowances made for their cultural background. I’m not feeling much love on here for The Irish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,321 ✭✭✭jackboy


    That's how the demoralising self hatred promoted by the government and their media lackies works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Ozvaldo


    The country is unsettled and villages throughout Ireland have these undocumented migrants hanging around the streets all day causing locals stress.

    Dublin city is a calamity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭whatever.


    Sweden changing policy entirely because of the consequences of asylum seekers

    "But also, more broadly, it’s commonly accepted that it’s good to be very restrictive and minimise asylum seeker applications in Sweden. All the major political parties have said that for almost 10 years.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/19/sweden-negative-net-immigration-figure-record-low-asylum-application-global-displacement



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,543 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Another reminder - this thread is to do with Ireland's refugee policy, not immigration by other means, and not for trying to dig out incidents just because they involve foreigners

    Threadbans can be expecyted if this warning is not observed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    That's quite simply untrue.

    More weak attempts to try portray IPAs as some sort of deviant group.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Document you posted doesn't refer to higher IPAs than we currently see. The figures in that are total immigration which includes people on working visas and other applicants from other European countries. Most likely Eastern Europeans around the early noughties making up the majority of the total. The total number of IPAs previously was 7000 approx. We are at three times that today. Your comparing apples and oranges. The influx of asylum seekers we are seeing this year is unprecedented. That's the simple truth.



  • Posts: 3,280 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's logical that with large influxes from the most lawless regions of the world bring with them the social problems of those regions, especially when the strategy is to create ghettos for young men from these regions.

    The open border brigade will tell you that IPs are the same as everyone else so long as it suits them to do so (e.g. asylum seeker is no more inclined towards criminality than an Irish person). But they'll also tell you that IPs are different when it suits them (sure isn't diversity is our strength!). So difference is only accepted when it is a positive. This epitomises the inconsistent and self-contradictory nonsense of the open-border Marxist ideologue (or whatever you want to call them).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92 ✭✭amykl_1987


    Roderic said last xmas that 15000 per year is the new norm.

    So in 4 years that's 60,000 people. That's going to require a lot more that the 14000 state owned accommodation places planned for being in place by 2028 unless we actually actively deport people and rapidly.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/roderic-ogorman-says-15000-asylum-seekers-per-year-will-be-new-normal-1569905.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,677 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Didnt they turn the EP site into a refugee site when it was over last year?



This discussion has been closed.
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