Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

That's the IOC whose president said at his press conference both that "there is there is no way to see who is female - it isn't possible. Please, if you know tell us" and also that Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif are "definitely women".

So how should they have tested, and how can they possibly tell anyway?

I’ve no idea, although I presume in a male adult with DSD the genitalia are unlikely to have become completely normal, even after puberty. But nor would they be absolutely female genitalia either, so either way, that is not what the doctor would have been saying.

In any case, what matters is whether or not Khelif has male advantage. Being “raised as a girl” and “having female sensitivity” but “chromosomal and hormone problems” means a person with male chromosomes and testosterone, ie someone who should not be fighting women in a boxing ring, however they want to dress and live outside the ring.

True but the accusation wasnt made by the IBA with all its baggage. And the test results of Lance Armstrong and the others were not disputed by another sporting organisation at the same time.

I wouldn't disagree on your second point. But it does look like Khelif was born with the body of a female and as a consequence identified and raised as one.

Incredibly, a large amount of the social media commentary appears to be under the impression that Khelif is an actual man with a male body who has somehow cheated their way into women's boxing by pretending to be a woman.

The English media are picking up the Cazorlas statement now. Unless Khelifs team come back with something to dispute this then I would conclude now she has XY chromosomes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733607/Imane-Khelif-gender-boxer-olympics-chromosomes.html

But such a person would in no way be eligible to compete in men's boxing, so the Twitterati are wrong to say "Khelif quite clearly is a man".

Also, there have been cases in the past of people with predominately male chromosomes and male hormones who have even given birth to children. This subject is extremely complex, with no easy answers.

For the simple reason that they wouldn't have a man's body or male genitalia….however you want to categorise such a person, that is clearly not a 'male boxer'. Also, such people would be legally identified as a woman on their birth certificate and current passport, which again would presumably totally disbar them from competing in a men's competition.

But people with vagina's and who can give birth to babies are women, aren't they? Unless I was mistaken in biology class. That would seem very pertinent in a conversation about womens sports.

Now, I'm not so blind as to assume nature doesn't throw out an odd one now and then. Being born a woman with internal testes that provide you with more male hormones than normal is certainly one of those odd cases.

The only thing disputing these women as men is the IBA test, the IBA being a notoriously corrupt sporting organisation run these days by a country (Russia) with a known history of targeting LGBT people, with a long and corrupt history of dodgy doping, political and financial corruption, and targeted testing. In this case, testing was requested by opposition coaches, mostly from it appears coachers of fighters from countries with pro-Russian political stances. And they also fought for years, and lost fights, without their ever being a problem as to them being women, and were likely tested during that time as well without problem.

So what have we got so far?

Two people born with a vagina who can give birth to children raised form birth as women, and a test from a sporting organisation so corrupt and mired in doping and testing scandals that the IOC (and that in itself says something) has kicked them out of the last two Olympics. And said test has been claimed as flawed, and has not been clearly explained and motivated by competing parties.

This isn't a Lia Thomas situation. These two boxers were born a bit weird, but are nonetheless women.

Now, the IOC needs to determine it's parameters with regard to hormone levels given we know these days that nature does throw out odd ones.

But in the absence of the IOC not doing that yet, these women have every right to fight as they have done for years, and have done nothing wrong. They've broken no rules, and are women.

And it's women violence against women. And yes, I'll support that, as long as it's organised and sport and fair under the rules. Which it is.

This isn't trans issue no matter how much people want it to be. These fighters are women.

It really is that simple.

And Lance Armstrong was not punching women to win races, so the urgency of finding a definitive answer to the queries over his wins was not comparable. In this case, the two boxers concerned can answer the question today if they wish to.

That they do not wish to, and instead have actively tried to prevent the results from being made public by others, in itself means that the question needs to be answered ASAP. Because of the risk of women being subjected to male violence by stealth/gaslighting.

About this:

Being born a woman with internal testes that provide you with more male hormones than normal is certainly one of those odd cases.

In what way is someone "a woman" if they have functioning testes and a normal level of testosterone for an adult male please?

What definition of "woman" are you using there? "Assigned female at birth"?

And this:

Two people born with a vagina who can give birth to children raised form birth as women,

Again, where is your evidence for this? (And indeed your evidence that they were born "with a vagina"?)

and a test from a sporting organisation so corrupt and mired in doping and testing scandals that the IOC (and that in itself says something) has kicked them out of the last two Olympics. And said test has been claimed as flawed, and has not been clearly explained and motivated by competing parties.

Well the problem here is that, whatever you think about the IBA, the two people concerned chose not to appeal the results to an acknowledged independent appeals process, CAS, which means that by default, those results are the official results. Why they chose not to do so is, in itself, indicative of what those results found, but in any case, there is enough of a doubt for it to be important to solve that question with an independent test now. And the people involved are choosing not to do that.

And anyone who thinks that women should just put up with that doubt because Khelif's feelings are more important than any of the women who lost to her in the ring recently is condoning the risk of male violence against women.