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Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I don’t think you would ever had bought one in fairness.



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    Interesting that he was being accused of being an antisemite not too long ago, I just can't keep up anymore 🤷‍♂️.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    People with extreme views have a tendency to contradict themselves, e.g. Elon toying with antisemitic stuff, feeling the heat, then changing course. Indeed can be difficult to keep up with.

    Share price really feeling the heat of the latest news, biggest price drop since 2020



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Will this make teslas cheaper?if they drop in price I can see sales go up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    at this stage who hasn’t been.
    that word has no meaning, it’s overused and used to justify genocide



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: Anybody who continues to ignore the mod instruction will be thread banned.

    Keep comments on this thread limited to the impact on Tesla, or at least relate them to direct consequences on the Tesla brand, there's a CA thread if you want to discuss his larger influence, if in doubt PM me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 663 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    Who said they bought a VW? I cenrtainly haven't!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    I can only speak for myself and some other car friends but none of us would buy a Tesla based on EM's politics and fondness for Trump. Who knows how many sales they are losing because of him?

    I admire company CEO's that go about the business of running a company, not seeking out the limelight and shooting their mouth off, potentially at the expense of the company's reputation and value.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Someone with manic depression who self medicated with ketamine shouldn't be in charge of a mulibillion dollar industry

    https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/elon-musk-mental-health



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭grennscreener


    I think the cybertruck is proof enough he should have been sacked from the board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭Edgardo.


    He apparently had a one on one meeting with alleged war criminal Bibi after that Congress speech. The cyber trucks may be least of his worries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Meeting with embattled heads of state aside, no-one seems to be able to quantify any impact to sales from Elon's politics

    There's a few people here who claim they won't buy one because of his political views, however they never confirmed they were planning to buy one originally

    If they weren't, which seems likely, then the material loss to Tesla is zero

    This seems confirmed by the fact that Tesla sales are generally keeping pace with their competitors. I'm sure a few potential buyers were put off, but it seems others have come to fill the demand

    There seems two possible explanations, either the customer base has shifted to more conservative buyer, or the customer base mostly doesn't care about his politics

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Isn't there margin hovering just above the negative at the moment ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It certainly calls his decisions into question, however people are buying it so it isn't like it's a complete flop

    The decision making seems more sensible if you look at it through the lens of the silicon valley tech bro culture, where it's more important to appear on the cutting edge and generate hype to boost the share price rather than make a sustainable business

    Tesla were moving towards just being another car company among many and Elon's latest cuts to the Model 2 and Supercharger teams to focus on AI, Optimus and a few vanity cars has upended that

    Now I do generally question how well a budget hatchback would sell in a market obsessed with SUVs, but you'd think then there'd be more focus on the Roadster and other higher end models in that case

    In any case, there's this general assumption among his backers that he's got a secret plan for success, I'm not so convinced he does or that it's a good plan

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Same could be said for every EV maker, they've been forced to cut prices to sell cars which eats your profit margin

    If every company experiences roughly the same problems, then it's a market issue. If one company suddenly experiences a drop whereas the competition is unaffected then that company screwed up

    There seems to be more of the former affecting Tesla at the moment than the latter

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I know of plenty of people who don’t buy one because of Musk. And they might have bought one. They’ve driving VW, Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia and MG EVs.

    They wouldn’t even test drive a Tesla because of their dislike for Musk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭grennscreener


    Exactly - the lens of a silicon tech bro is a great reason for the board to have ditched him. The auto industry is a global one, the idea of diverting resources into a vanity project with limited appeal and almost no international reach is ample evidence that the guy is a complete spoofer. If you question the scale of global sales of a small, affordable EV vs the cyber truck, well that's certainly an opinion all right.

    He's clearly got a cult who worships him but that will end the way most cults do.

    The rest of your post isn't about tesla so I don't see their relevance to the thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    He's contributing to the trump campaign so that if he gets in there will be a pro-tesla (and other Musk companies) agenda. If Harris gets in she will be pro-EV so there's no point backing her from that POV

    At the time I felt the exact same but surprisingly the CT is selling like hotcakes at the moment so maybe he got it right



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Given a Harris presidency would possibly mean more oversight and regulation for Twitter and SpaceX/Starlink in particular, it seems clear that it wouldn't favour Musk at all who likes the whole laissez-faire style of economics

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    VW following their emissions scandal.
    BMW when they were involved in the child labour market.
    Apple with the Chinese sweat shops. Mercedes when they also cheated many bus drivers with their emission scandals.
    Nissan with their embezzlement/fraud.
    collective fraud between Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Mazda and Yamaha.

    That’s the top of my head, without a google search. If you look, you’ll find a reason not to buy any brand. Ditch the phone, internet, or batteries and everything else made with questionable processes if you want to avoid any of that perceived stress.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • Administrators Posts: 445 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭System


    Mod Note: Posts moved here from Tesla Talk thread discussion on how Elon Musk as CEO is impacting the brand should be in this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    As the largest shareholder he owns 20.% outright. Not sure how much he owns by proxy if his mother and brother.
    he is the CEO.

    Tesla is Musk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,358 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    just on the last point, No they are not the best ev's by a mile. We need to cut the fluff there. Are they the most effiecient EVs ? Most definitely they make the best motors. Are they the best drive and handling ? no. Are they the fastest ? no. Are they the best interior? No. Do they have the best software? Still debatable depends on what that means to you. They have great stuff within their SW user experience, they also have poor stuff in it too. Do they have the best looking EVs ? again subjective but i think most would say.. 'good' yes 'the best' - no.

    So on even the most basic view on them as an EV they arent the best, but they exceed in some areas. That would be a more honest summary of their vehicles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,358 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Someone mentioned earlier about people saying they wouldnt buy a tesla then later said they were never buying one. I dont recall anyone in this thread or site saying they were never buying one to begin with.

    Myself and the better half were moving to EV since about end of 2022, We still had alot of life left in our Volvo, but were moving for something more fuel friendly and long term focused. So were 100% buying a model Y. but over the last 2 years this flute has increasingly got up my back and I dont like his politics or his interference in it both domestically in the US and even our own country. I started looking elsewhere and waited for the market to correct. We paid more than the model Y and went elsewhere for our car.

    Thats not an anecdote, i would have bought one. I think the man is an active threat do global affairs. His most recent interference in the UK now only confirms for me that he is a dangerous narcisist with obvious mental health problems and a short fuse. He is clearly self medicating and acts on any false data that confirms his immediate bias then promotes it.

    Im not helping that mans fortunes by handing him tens of thousands of my money. And id also be really highly concerned of the value of the car as we have seen him shaft existing tesla owners. I hope the brand surives his reign. Hes the idiots version of intelligence.

    I hold out hope hes ousted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,103 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I suppose best by a mile is subjective rather than objective. We bought new EVs in 222 and 232, from Tesla and Ora/GWM respectively. When buying the Tesla there was no comparison for what we wanted - supercharger network, app control, navigation integration and charge display (ie the trip planner), and the way the car reacts as it's getting low on charge. When buying the Ora new teslas were much more expensive and there wasnt any other realistic option at the price point.

    Now, 2 years after we bought the 3 (our third T in total), there are indeed more viable options both in terms of capability and at the price point of the current tesla cars. For instance, when I bought the 3 I only cross shopped against other Teslas. Now if I am to buy a replacement - probably in another 12 months due to the price cuts - I'd be cross shopping with Mercedes, Audi, Kia EV9, etc. The competition is getting better. But (and only IMHO) Tesla is still the best package combining range, efficiency, native superchargers, and cost for what you get.

    Much as I dislike the sight or sound of Elon and don't agree with most of his conspiracy theorist nonsense, he's not Tesla. He's the current CEO, not the founder and it's not a private company. I listen to music where I hate the artists political views for instance, separate the art from the artist. Elon has so much money that I doubt he cars about my 900 quid a month for my model 3!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think it's more than that, Elon is the face and representative of Tesla as well as being the CEO

    I can't think of any car company where the CEO gets more face time. I don't even know who the CEOs of Stellantis, Ford, Toyota or many manufacturers are. I only know the CEO of VW because I follow them in the news and I've heard from him maybe 3 times in the past year

    Tesla doesn't have much advertising, and Elon has been shutting down what little they have recently. In many cases most Tesla news comes directly from Elon's Twitter account

    It's almost impossible to think of Tesla without thinking of Elon

    I appreciate that a lot of people can mentally separate him from the company, but he's certainly not making any effort on his own part to distance his personal views from any of his companies

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think you've hit the nail here, while Tesla enjoy several competitive advantages, there are other areas where the competition is catching up

    They've also given away some of their unique selling points, opening up the Supercharger network being the biggest one. It's certainly beneficial to me as a non Tesla owner to have access to the network, but there were definitely some sour opinions from Tesla owners when it got announced

    Anecdotally, during my one and only experience of using the Supercharger network, I was getting several dirty looks from passing Tesla owners since I was effectively taking out two chargers due to the short cables. I'm going to throw out a viewpoint that some owners are a slightly bitter about the whole experience

    I think they're also losing credibility on the tech side of things. FSD might have been a good selling point back in 2012 when the tech bros were all drunk on the kool aid and thought it would be done in a couple of years. Now it seems to be further away than ever

    So I'm not sure they're the best "by a mile" anymore. By a few yards might be closer to the truth

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I guess I’m lucky enough that I can separate the fella from the car. The same way I can separate continental tyres from their Nazi past and concentration camp testing of inmates.

    If we lived our lives based on the running of a company I feel we’d be living in mud shacks and still out hunting or lunch.

    How many people on here have bought continental Tyres? Or a Zeiss Scope/lens? Or use Allianz Insurance (myself included). Some people use morals as their reasoning yet those same morals only extend to Tesla for some strange reason.

    It reminds me very much of the Apple fanboy V Fandroid arguments that were rampant on these forums over 10 years ago.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Interesting article on Electrek

    https://electrek.co/2024/08/08/tesla-working-through-giant-cybertruck-backlog-pretty-fast/

    So it's looking like a lot of reservation holders aren't turning into eventual buyers

    On one hand, I don't think this is surprising, it's a $100 refundable deposit so I think a lot of people chucked one down on the off chance they decided to buy one

    However, there's a few aspects where you could point the finger at Elon for screwing up

    First is the obvious overpromising and under delivering. The CT is late, significantly more expensive, shorter ranged, less efficient and has fewer features than promised. On top of this there seems to be some significant build quality issues, and also the thing doesn't seem as good at truck stuff than other electric trucks

    Yeah okay, what else is new? But that leads into my second point

    By setting the deposit so low, this created a false sense of demand which could impact them long term. With the 1 million reservation holders Tesla had to assume that there could be a million people looking for Cybertrucks and plan production accordingly

    Now it's looking more like they'll be way over capacity and might have to cut prices, which always looks great for your flagship luxury product.

    If the reservation had been set at something higher, you could argue they'd get a lot fewer reservations but much more of them would turn into real orders

    I don't know if Elon chose the reservation amount, but he definitely knew about it and the potential consequences. I suspect it was a ploy to generate a lot of apparent interest upfront and boost the share price, like seemingly every other decision lately

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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