Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898072#Comment_121898072

That's why Musk wants more voting power because he fears the growing sentiment among shareholders will revolt due to his performance and vote him out if he totally goes off the rails or continues to spend much of his time managing other businesses.

prawnsambo

I always laugh at Irish people complaining about 'cancel culture'. We invented it. Look up the origin of the word 'Boycott'.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898896#Comment_121898896

They're not the same thing though. Boycotts typically target companies or orgs as a response to verifiable ongoing actions(unethical practices or policies), usually there is a chance for resolution. Whereas cancel culture focuses on individuals with the aim to damage reputation or careers due to current or past actions regardless of whether the target apologises or not.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898896#Comment_121898896

I always laugh when people (particularly on this site) complain about freedom of speech being restricted

There's probably never been a time in history when people were more free to say whatever they want

Even in countries with highly censored news, many people use messaging apps like Telegram to get around those restrictions

Last year I was reading a thread about pirate radio, and I had to stop for a moment to think about how crazy the concept sounded today.

The idea that the only way to bring non RTE approved news or music to people was to rig up a transmitter from bits you bought from the hardware shop and broadcast from the Wicklow mountains hoping you didn't get arrested

Nowadays, you just fire whatever thought comes into your head out onto whatever platform takes your fancy

So when people complain about having their posts flagged or taken down, I can't help but roll my eyes. No, it isn't an attempt to restrict freedom of speech or silence honest debate. It's almost always because that person said something pretty horrible, which in no way added any useful viewpoints to a discussion and it's entirely appropriate to take down their posts

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898858#Comment_121898858

Yeah I think that's quite likely part of his motivation, he might also be looking for more of a reserve of quick cash in case he decides to buy another company or inject some money into his various other ventures

The way he went about it was pretty hilarious, basically saying he'd redirect Tesla's AI research in xAI, which is effectively a competitor he owns.

So first off you've a man who is CEO of two companies which are at least partly competitors and there doesn't seem to be any sort of conflict of interest restrictions placed on him

Pretty sure the board of Boeing would have some concerns if the CEO was also CEO of Airbus. They'd certainly have some concerns if that person threatened to give all Boeings important trade secrets to Airbus if they didn't give him a controlling share of the company

So why does Elon Musk get away with it? Simple, because he's Elon Musk, and the Tesla board swear fealty to him above all others

Now, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't really care if Elon gets the boot as CEO or not. I've no skin in the game either way, he isn't the reason I don't want a Tesla, but him leaving won't make me go out and buy one either

I would get a sense of smug satisfaction from seeing him being called out for his BS, but that's just like watching some real life drama being played out

I do want to see Tesla succeed, they are responsible for bringing EVs to the point where they are today and continue to drive things forward. It's likely without Tesla the most advanced EV on the road today would be the Nissan Leaf 24kWh

However, it's my considered opinion that the company would be better off without Elon Musk having an active hand in the day to day running of the place. I'm fully aware that an opinion is all it is, and I welcome all reasonable debate on the topic

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898979#Comment_121898979

I mean I'd call that just another form of boycott. It's a bunch of people turning around and saying "hey, we are the people who usually buy stuff from<insert company name> we aren't going to buy stuff from them while they continue to have a relationship with <insert **** name>"

Companies are generally against the idea of making less money so if they think <insert **** name> is an obstacle to that then they get dumped

Plenty of other companies have leaned into controversy when they thought it benefitted them. Rockstar games didn't exactly dial back the violence in Grand Theft Auto despite it getting a lot of heat, largely because they knew their audience weren't the ones complaining

So no, cancel culture isn't an attempt to ruin someone's reputation, it's an audience rejecting a personality they previously liked for whatever reason

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898982#Comment_121898982

Never mind that the freedom of speech or lack thereof is not in fact freedom of speech. The phrase has become anything from moderation on here to cancelling someone's soapbox in the media when in fact it's simply the freedom from interference by government in your right to free speech. What happens in other organs can be variously described as the rules or your contractual obligations to your employer.

I spent some time as a community notes contributor on Twitter. I volunteered out of curiosity more than anything else, but omg was it a sh1tshow. An ever increasing number of CN contributors were ridiculously biased to the point where the system basically became unworkable. And this was Musk's much heralded replacement for the trust and safety function. Basically outsourcing the function to the user base with oh so predictable results. And the flood of disinformation became unstoppable. It was like whack-a-mole. Any time there was something newsworthy, old and unrelated media was posted many multiples of times claiming to be from said incident. A tsunami of bullsh1t that people lapped up because it confirmed their bias.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898979#Comment_121898979

Boycott was an individual. Who was boycotted.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897503#Comment_121897503

That's a great post. I do disagree about the Russians though, yes some speech is curtailed but nothing like what happens here in Ireland. We're nearly the worst of the worst.

I think it was today Kaitlyn Jenner proclaimed trans women aren't women. That will be headline news in Russia and the UK. It probably won't even be noted here. It's a simple obvious fact but every media outlet is afraid to say it. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be in tomorrows paper and the comments section will be open under the Journal.ie but I doubt it as it's wrong speak in Ireland. I'm sure Elon will blast in and get hated by the Irish media and people who boycott his cars here for being right wing or some other nonsense slur.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121899435#Comment_121899435

I do disagree about the Russians though, yes some speech is curtailed but nothing like what happens here in Ireland. We're nearly the worst of the worst.

That has to be the most uninformed, blinkered statement I have ever seen. And I was a Community Notes contributor on Twitter.

People were arrested in Moscow for holding up blank pieces of paper. Saying "No to war" gets you arrested. Opposition politicians are arrested, imprisoned on trumped up charges and killed. Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Kara-Murza et al. Journalists are routinely murdered. Anna Politkovskaya being one of many. Go educate yourself.

liamog

Mod Note: Back to Musk and Tesla, comparing freedom of speech in Russia and Ireland, has drifted a bit too much for an EV sub forum

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895410#Comment_121895410

The only people who hate Musk are those who live their lives knowing what to think ( and who to hate ) rather than how to think

Musk is a scourge of progressive group think and that's unforgivable to some

Sad

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900654#Comment_121900654

Straight out of the "culture war" playbook. Lol.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901002#Comment_121901002

You can say that about just about anything ( the concluding " Sad " was meant to be ironic)

listermint

Still absolute poison to the brand and the business.

He'll never change. Also still looking for 57 billion bonus.

Poison.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/4/24171165/elon-musk-tesla-x-nvidia-ai-chips-divert

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220554#Comment_122220554

The funny part is that he could avoid a lot of this hassle by putting several of his companies until an umbrella group, like IAG or Ryanair group

Probably wouldn't work with Tesla since he doesn't own the company outright

But it would remove any suggestion that he's effectively CEO of multiple competing companies

Sure he was recently saying if he doesn't own 25% of Tesla he'll shift AI resources over to xAI. Doesn't exactly sound like a CEO who's got the companies best interests at heart

listermint

I see musk has managed to threaten , strong arm and use his X profile and tweets to shimmy people to vote to dilute their shares for his mega package.

This is some bizarre cult like stuff going on. Like the bitcoin of companies. Deity !

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253554#Comment_122253554

I don't think the results are being announced until 9.30pm today

So far Musk has claimed the majority of retail shareholders who voted have voted in his favour

This isn't the same as saying he has a majority and also doesn't include the institutional shareholders who wield a lot of power

In any case, the vote doesn't actually change anything by itself and will only be used as part of the appeal against the court ruling which denied Musk his pay package

No doubt there'll be additional cases so this is far from over

As an aside, Musk could have avoided this by correcting the governance issues that got his original pay deal thrown out. However it's clear that Musk believes he should be allowed to run companies whatever way he wants and good corporate governance is just unnecessary red tape

Seems the Delaware courts disagree with him on that front

I would say that all this distraction and additional legal fees are definitely hurting Tesla, although probably not in any meaningful ways

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254124#Comment_122254124

He had a pop at Apple yesterday or the day before because they are partnering with OpenAi. Has said that his employees or visitors to his companies won't be allowed to bring Apple devices on site.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254145#Comment_122254145

Kinda funny how his justification is that OpenAI is spyware

Not disagreeing with him, but shouldn't X be banned from his company offices as well in that case 😏

FaganJr

I aspired to own a Tesla

I will never allow anyone in my family to buy one now after his Right Wing melt downs and public admission of funding The orange diaper wearing baby!

JOL1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420102#Comment_122420102

Not a very rational appraoch to buying a car….

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420102#Comment_122420102

Cool story.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420102#Comment_122420102

Some thoughts for boycotting:

1. You can't actually decide what other members of your family are buying, assuming they're adults they can make their own decisions and I'm fairly sure most teenagers can't independently afford a Tesla

2. There's no point in boycotting and not informing the brand. Basically you need to go on Twitter and tell Elon that you aren't buying a Tesla specifically due to his support of Trump and the far right. If enough people do this then in theory it should force the company to change course or avoid alienating their fan base. However with Elon I would say the chances of your message getting through are close to zero

3. Principles are good, but also a luxury item. You can only have them if you can afford them. For example I might not like how some supermarkets treat farmers but I also can't really afford to see my food budget double. In the case of Tesla, we'll let's be honest they're luxury goods but also one of the more affordable EVs out there. So if someone really wanted an EV to get away from ICE and a Tesla is all they could get then I wouldn't think it's fair to hold that decision against them

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420127#Comment_122420127

seems fairly rational, the poster thinks Elon is a dangerous bad actor. Therefore doesnt want to give him money as it would be ruber stamping his behaviour. This is as rational as buying a car because the colour was something that appealed to you.

I dont expect everyone to understand other peoples principle stand points, some people are compromising, some are some what , some never compromise. Such are human freedoms...

FaganJr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420134#Comment_122420134

True Story

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420582#Comment_122420582

Not buying a certain brand because of the personality of the CEO is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written on these boards, almost as dumb as boycotting Tesla but still using Twitter🤣.

What's also interesting is the fact that these so called moral objections are not applied to all company CEO's. Of course you're free to purchase anything you like for any reason you like, well unless you're a member of FaganJr's family😬

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420102#Comment_122420102

You are not alone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420127#Comment_122420127

it’s very rational. , the largest single shareholder is donating $45 Million a month to get a nasty piece of work elected as president, strangely one that wants to remove any incentive to buy an EV and incentives the purchase of ICE vehicles.

You might be surprised to hear that People actually have morals

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420734#Comment_122420734

People are free to spend their money how they want and can choose to buy or not buy anything for whatever reason they decide

Plenty of people bought Teslas because they believe in Elon's vision and want to support his companies, presumably they're equally as foolish in your view?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420855#Comment_122420855

I literally said just that in the post you quoted.