Meanwhile on the Roads...

It would be interesting to see if the increase in rates and the types of crashes that we are seeing here are being replicated across Europe. Purely in the realms of "anecdata" but I'm just back from travelling through several European countries and whether driving or cycling, I felt that there had been an increase in **** road behaviour. France, in particular, seems to have deteriorated.

Some day, researchers will show that the biggest threat to road safety was not speed, drugs or phone use, but the court system.

I spoke to a lot of weekly drink drivers who stopped drink driving for fear of jail; not fines, or driving suspensions the fear of jail.

Scaffolding/demolition deaths weren't unusual events until directors of major firms realised that a workers death could mean loss of liberty. Agriculture deaths continue as its mostly farmers killing themselves or their family members

I've been in a few of our prisons they are not pleasant places; they are a wonderful deterrent to regular people. It's terrifying and shameful. You are going to have to jail very few people; the message gets out pretty quickly.

Huge fines linked to company turnover focus attention to.

Wrt Judge Nolan. I see on The Journal there that he's given another suspended sentence for child p0rnography possession with the judgement that the public shame is punishment enough and a custodial sentence would serve no purpose. The courts seem to take a similar view on road deaths caused by dangerous driving or inattention, that incarceration is not merited and that the guilt of having killed someone is prison enough.

Also - there's a bizarre take on the investigation into that accident in which 4 teens were killed last year. Excessive speed was not considered a factor it states, and then goes on to say there was torrential rain and the car was travelling at 75kph in a 50kph zone.??! So 50% over the posted limit and clearly no account taken for the weather and road conditions.

It's hard to see or follow the logic. :(

The Clonmel tragedy was one where people including on this site were calling to know what happened immediately, sensitives of the families be damned.

The likely factors as ever were pretty mundane (worn tyres and inappropriate speed for weather conditions).

The deviation left onto kerb wasn't explained; it was either likely a steering input or loss of control due to standing water/worn tyres.

What wasn't mentioned in reporting was the road drainage. A new footpath with kerb had been installed 5 years or so ago. This wouldn't have been ever an issue except for the heaviest of rainfall.

It's about 300m from bend they rounded to Hillview tennis club, but its an almost level section of road, and unless road drainage outlets were optimal I'd expect some standing water given rainfall reported. Prior to new footpath water would have been were footpath now is.

That's not a criticism of the road authority but it's the reason good tyres are essential and driving to conditions.

Coroner's courts are pretty restrained by legislation and supreme court decisions in what they look at and what findings they can come to.

Calling it a mountain road is a bit of false reporting. It is the road's name but the collision site is about 30m asl. It's a pretty civilised mountain road above collision location; moderate gradients, decent surface, good lane widths.

In instances like this there always seems to be a desire from the Coroner's Court to spare the feelings of the deceaseds' families. Whilst understandable to a degree, it really does a dis-service to the whole purpose of holding an inquiry to then ignore the controllable factors that lead to these deaths (i.e. the tyres and the speed).

It was calculated by gardaí that it was being driven at speeds of 51 kilometres per hour and 75 kph at different points on the hill, in a zone that was governed by a 50kph speed limit.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0711/1459361-accidental-death-verdicts-at-inquest-into-clonmel-crash/

Yep, the problem with this story is accuracy of the speed estimate, not the unroadworthy vehicle.