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General Irish politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yea, France is a bit of a mad system.

    Round 2 is for those with buyers remorse and I guess it makes people think harder on their choices.

    In Round 1, unless someone gets 50% of the vote, they go to Round 2.

    It's like FPTP but with some guardrails and a higher threshold to be elected.

    Again though it favours more centrist parties in the long run. Extreme parties who do well in round 1 can be ganged up on, and outvoted in round 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Will be interesting who they put up for the nomination.

    Will it be Buttimer again, or will Shane O'Callgahan get a chance? He is much younger than Buttimer who isn't all that popular.

    Will also be the first time in 43 years a Coveny was not up for election in that constituency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,744 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I think it's somewhere in between FPTP and STV.

    In round 2, if it's apparent that your favoured candidate has no hope of being elected (or if your favoured candidate has withdrawn) you can think about who you would like instead, and vote for them — effectively you get to express a second preference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I am not re-debating Brexit, it's been done to death.

    But the idea was put forward that Brexit was the result of FPTP, which ignored the actual large groundswell of opinion that was in favour of it, and in a PR system, that support would have coalesced to a party more aligned to its values and would have had a large number of seats in Westminister.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yea, that is a good way of looking at it.
    While its technically an FPTP system, the 2 rounds offer a 2nd preference for those who want to change their mind or see their candidate dumped out of it in the 1st round.

    Channel 4 did a piece on PR vs FPTP recently.

    As always its a trade off.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,267 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Will John Mullins be the replacement for Simon Coveney?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I much prefer PR-STV obviously but for the likes of the UK, it wouldn't be the worst first step for Westminster elections to adopt the two-round system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,126 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It creates a great opportunity for Harris to reinvent his party with a new image, new leader, new candidates.

    It is a pity that O'Gorman is not doing the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I thought he was going to run in Cork East, but I may be mistaken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Any politician opposed to teaching kids about " transgenderism" , can't be all bad



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,983 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    We're now at the "but he got the trains to run on time" stage 🙄

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Buttimer will almost certainly be going for it. He got unlucky in the past when his home patch in Bishopstown got split between CNC and CSC. After the recent boundary review it's all back in CSC again. There's an extra seat in the constituency as well so they very well could run two candidates and since O'Callaghan is from a different part of the constituency it could very well be him as the running mate. Des Cahill might throw his hat in the ring as well though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Surely they want to win the seat? He was a very poor MEP candidate, can't see how he'd fare better in a dail election...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Dear Christ.

    Why are you right-wingers so obsessed with other people's genitalia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed - Might be a first step in the right direction for them,

    Go to ranked choice ,where it's still single seat but you give your ranked choice and then if no one gets to 50.1% you exclude all but the top two and allocate the secondary choices of the excluded votes.

    They use that in the US in a few States - Maine and Alaska for sure and perhaps a few others.

    It's what gave the Alaska House seat to the Democrats over Palin a while back.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's also a pretty instructive use of language too, isn't it? I guess it's easier to disassociate the concept of helping the well-being and safety of humans, looking for paths to their own happiness, if you can use a term that makes it sound like a movement or a cult. It's patently and intentionally dehumanising language.

    Anyway, off topic I know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'm confused. What's the RCV suggestion in response to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Single seats is rubbish, regardless of how you pick the winner.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Don't disagree in the slightest , but as an intermediate step on the journey from FPTP to fully functional PR it might be useful.

    A move to full PR would require blowing up all of their constituencies and changing how they vote all at the same time which a lot of UK voters might see as too great a change in a single step.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,949 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    The Scottish and the Welsh already use the additional member system for their devolved governments. They use the GOAT that is PR-STV in the north. They used use the alternative vote for mayoral elections until the tories did away with that.

    The British can handle a new system. The big thing would be to ensure it's independently devised and controlled, avoiding the perception of gerrymandering or collusion.

    It'll never happen though.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    In FPTP about one third of the seats are safe, a donkey with the right colour rosette would win. (Here multiple seats means local voters can override parachute candidates.)

    In most others it's a two horse race, there is literally no point in voting for a third candidate.

    In seats with three or more contenders the transferable vote means you don't have to second guess who others will likely vote for.

    *I say that as a Green supporter

    The UK Green party got 4 seats from 1,841,888 votes in 2024 in Westminster.

    In 2015 the DUP got 184,260 votes and 8 seats. Twice as many seats on a tenth of the vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Say the next government is made up of Independant Ireland and FF/FG. Would everyone all of a sudden be happy that the populist right is in government, where they make policy and legislation to row back on this like clean air and water, public transport, abortion, divorce, drunk driving

    Divorce is enshrined in the constitution anyway so that's just silly to mention. No government is going to touch abortion for a generation either.

    If Independent Ireland get into power with FF & FG then their potential to bring in unpopular nonsense will be severely curtailed. Realistically it would likely just mean that foot-dragging on climate issues gets increased and anything seen as being too "woke" wouldn't see the light of day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭moon2


    Would everyone all of a sudden be happy that the populist right is in government, where they make policy and legislation to row back on this like clean air and water, public transport, abortion, divorce, drunk driving

    To be honest, I'd be happy if Independent Ireland were in government with FF, FG or both, and then they proposed these things for a vote. The new policies would fairly obviously not pass, and the optics of attempting to row back such popular legislation would likely tank their vote amongst the swing voters. They'd be a 1 shot coalition party.

    This is one of the stronger points about our voting system - a minor party has minor power and can't do these kinds of things with the support of the majority party, who has the majority of the power by virtue of obtaining the majority of the popular vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    Rowing back on abortion and divorce would require a party being in charge of department of Health and Justice. A minor party like Independent Ireland would never been given those. They end up with transports and could easily see investment in public transport and progress public transport policies being decimated then. As we have seen with FG involvement with trying to dismantle the Dublin City transport plan, they'd be in favour of that as well so there's be.liyyle objection to a car first policy in a FFG-II coalition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,267 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    II don't offer answers to anything. I call them the Ballygobackwards Party. A crystalisses of what they are, a new Soc Dem Cllr is seeking to remove prayers from the start of each Cork County Council meeting, II come out opposing it before there's any discussion. A variant on Ulster says NO.

    I'm not vehemently against prayers, but I would have a rational discussion on it. Do we really follow through on the separation of religion and state?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,983 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Rowing back on abortion rights is electoral death and everyone knows it. Renua turned into crank central for a reason.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,983 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    @Water John we talk a good game about being a secular republic but in reality there is no separation of church and state in Ireland, almost 95% of our primary schools are religious controlled despite being fully state funded, and they indoctrinate kids with the state’s blessing.

    Michael “Opus Dei” Woods decided the taxpayer would pick up the vast majority of the RCC’s abuse compensation and that was that. €1bn+ and counting.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Why would you need a praying session before a political meeting?

    Would it just be Catholic or Christian prayers or, for example, would there also be prayers from the Quran?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,983 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I’m thinking of setting up a religion with prayers of minimum length one hour, then forcing the councils to recognise it because it’s sectarianism if they don’t 😎

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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