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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We really miss Hansen. His ability to drop into the 10 position as a secondary playmaker is a huge asset. That extra passing option in the backs makes us far more threatening. I like Calvin Nash, he's a strong carrier and decent in the air. But he's not the playmaker that Mack is. We're just not as good on attack.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What disaster start did Osborne have ? Caught his first three high balls and did extremely well to stay in play when SA grubbered into the corner.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Caught rotten for the first try and he got caught once or twice after but i dont recall exactly what they where id have to look back. settled in well then though and as i say its not at all his fault



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The first try is completely on our narrow defence (which we seemed to fix in the second half). Good luck to anyone defending KLA in that scenario

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    What are you on about, he wasn't remotely responsible for the first try. All the damage is done long before Osborne comes into it. I don't think a single player in the Irish team would have made that tackle.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Kla can step anyone but his line was way off wasnt within 5 arms reaches. An international fullback runs a back shoulder line and maby still gets stepped because its kla but gets an arm on anyway



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Probably right because there was no fullback in the team. Yes there where errors before but a fullback is supposed to cover there again ill stress not his fault



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Agree, we got caught out in midfield waiting for their big carriers. Crowley had to get man and ball on Kolisi or stay out and let Nash cover him but he committed and didn’t manage to stop the pass to KLA. Great finish by him, not sure any FB is stopping him in that situation. Key in the first place is not to leave the last defender exposed like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The scrum was a positive today. Our starting front row had the match of the Boks and were probably unlucky to not eke out one or two penalties.

    South Africa's depth in that area did shine through and that penalty try once the bench was sprung was very impressive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Big fan of the physical edge Kelleher brings around the pitch but the lineout always looks more vulnerable when he’s throwing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Knee injury for Sheehan apparently. Henshaw and Casey picked up bad knocks as well. High toll from that game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    The scrum was superb aside from the last one where SA went through us. The evolution from being a big factor in our loss to NZ to becoming a weapon as the 6N went on and winning a few penalties to holding up against SA in SA is an incredible turnaround. There was a time Porter was getting pinged several times a game. We’ve really improved the picture we show the ref.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    It looked bad as soon as it happened. Was surprised he played on as long as he did with such heavy strapping. It was evident in the last few mins of the first half when he got the ball in space on the touchline and had no ability to accelerate, when normally he’s electric in that situation.

    Just hope it’s nothing more serious that a knock that keeps him out next week.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Anyway great game a 1 score loss in loftus is not the disaster it will be painted as this week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Lineout has been struggling for ages no matter who's been at hooker



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why would you sign a world class player at two positions and then play him at a position he's not world class at?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    That’s true, I think it got worse when Sheehan went off today but agree it’s been a weakness with every combination of second row and hooker for about a year.

    Think we should be considering a lineout coach to work alongside POC to find out what’s going on with it as he hasn’t been able to sort it. We have a specialist scrum coach so don’t see why we wouldn’t look at someone to tighten this area up. We’ve turned the scrum around over the last 9 months so this is the next weakness we need to solve.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's no way McCarthy is as good as Ryan. He would be better as an impact sub. One really good game and a bunch of meh since then.

    If this team ever loses porter or beirne for an extended amount of time we are screwed. Doris as well i'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Beirne was probably poorest of the three second rows today. He’s obviously an exceptional player but he looked sluggish and tired today, and struggled to create an impact. Ryan’s physicality was good and evident when he came on.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I thought he was still clearly better than McCarthy but i might be an outlier on that. He looks so raw to me in a lot of the things he does. If he isn't making a massive impact carrying wise to go along with that, i just don't see how he is currently an international standard starter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We lost, but there are plenty of positives to take from that game. We faced the World Champions at one of the hardest venues in the world for opposition to play, and came within a score of winning.

    South Africa started the game incredibly physically and never let us settle into our attacking or defensive patterns. We scrambled brilliantly though and Doris especially was a totem for his teammates to rally around.

    We were better in the second half. The Boks again started well, but didn't have quite the same dominance and we worked some good attacking opportunities. It wasn't to be in the end, but we put in a very credible performance.

    In the build up to this fixture there was a lot of pessimism from online fans and in the Irish press. Quite a few were predicting a heavy defeat. The fact we were within 7 points, and on another day could have won, shows the quality of the team.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    For funsies. Neither is a position of need and in a full strength 23 it's hard to see how him on the win isn't our best use of resources. We have a better 15 and I'm not sure benching Henshaw over Larmour makes much sense.

    Anyway, I thought Osborne did quite well at 15 and the concern about him was largely misplaced. It'll be a killer if he's not available next week though, would have been nice to have him get another shot.

    I would start Ryan ahead of McCarthy, would start Henshaw and Ringrose if possible but would give serious consideration to McCloskey/Ringrose otherwise and frankly anyone ahead of POM at this point. Casey's injury is a pain in the tits and hopefully he's ok. Murray will have to play 70 minutes next week.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You play him at 12 and keep hemshaw on a 5-3 bench. A 6-2 bench is tricky as he doesn't play ten i think. Otherwise, i'd be tempted to use him as a super frawley.

    I think maybe at 15 and keenan on wing would be interesting if you wanted to go dual playmaker.

    No matter how you cut it, its an elite player above osborne in every single depth chart he is on.

    I think osborne is too slow to be a top end 15 anyway so all a bit moot maybe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    If Aki can’t go, McCloskey would make a lot of sense to me. His physicality and directness would definitely paint a different picture to the South Africans.

    I hope Izuchukwu is involved next week. I think Jager should be on the bench ahead of Bealham, and think Ringrose should start at 13. If Osborne can’t play, I would hope it’s O’Brien at 15 but think it’s likely to be Frawley.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Keenan is a better 15, why would you move him out to the wing by your logic? No Barrett doesn't play 10. Realistically I expect him to play across 11/12/15/23 depending on need. Yes that likely means ahead of Osborne, for 6 months when he is 22 I really don't think that is that big of a deal.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Because alot of barrett's utility is playmaking and he has played a ton at 12/15. Its got to be one of those spots. Keenan at least would be a really good winger. Henshaw can't play anywhere else. Barrett is clearly a better player than henshaw and not better than keenan, but its tricky.

    Again, if its not a big deal to block a literal ireland starter level player from even being in 23s for all the big games of one year, then blocking doesn't exist. Can we retire it as a concept, because this is the best example of it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not really sure it is the best example of it, but I've never used it as a concept anyway so it's meaningless to me. If Osborne doesn't make 23s for Leinster he isn't going to be in the mix for Ireland next year and we can worry about that then. Though it would mean that Keenan is available anyway.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'd give serious thought to McCloskey over Aki anyway. Jager may as well be on the bench if our scrum is going to get minced that badly with Bealham on.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The only people he could beat out of those 23s already make ireland squads.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Thrashssacre


    Team for next week:

    1. Porter
    2. Kelleher
    3. Furlong
    4. Ryan
    5. Beirne
    6. Doris
    7. Vdf
    8. Timony
    9. Murray
    10. Crowley
    11. Lowe
    12. McCloskey
    13. Ringrose
    14. Nash
    15. Osborne
    16. Herring
    17. Tot
    18. Jager
    19. Izzy
    20. Pom
    21. Blade
    22. Prendergast
    23. Job

    Can't win the series and I feel this selection is bedding in a few for the future with enough of the frontliners to make it meaningful for their development.



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