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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    It's bizarre. The absolute prevalence of misinformation/tongue in cheek comments from the SA camp and media has become absolutely accepted wisdom with next to no evidence to support it.

    The Irish camp are the most bland and evasive set up in rugby. You rarely get something notable or interesting said by them let alone something inflammatory. The media is more bullish but not a fraction of what is being claimed.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    its the "Trump effect" in action

    essentially flood the zone with sh!t until the misinformation overwhelms any reasonable comment or debate.

    its hilarious at this stage.

    but to be a bit more two sided, Zebos idiotic comments haven't helped either. That lad could do with a review editor before he posts stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    ROG did a similar thing last year for the Champions Cup final. Lied through his teeth about Leinster disrespecting La Rochelle, despite Leinster players and management going to painstaking lengths to praise the opposition.

    The opposition know they're going up against a quality side and will use whatever ammunition to fire themselves up. More and more they're making stuff up and winding themselves up to a fever pitch. And it has worked tbf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,742 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I suppose Farrell is going to start Murray. Or am I wrong?

    If I was to rate the prospects at scrumhalf behind Casey:

    1.Doak

    Who else has a reasonable shout of getting 5-10 caps this side of the WC?

    Beyond that Devine looks like the more promising player compared to Foley over the very small sample size that I have seen.

    Gunne looked ok v SA U-20s last summer.

    https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/10/17/irfu-announces-national-talent-squad-inductees-for-2022-23-season/

    Bring back the National Scrum Development Programme & create a National Halfback Development Programme!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Feel free to show us all this shouting and screaming that we were going to win the WC? or Europe or even the URC…. you should have no problem proving me wrong give how delusional we all are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I’m not sure who said what you’re reporting but I think there’s a fair degree of brain washing going on in SA that this seems to be the perception.

    I would suggest most knowledgeable people on here and elsewhere would expect Ireland to lose both tests this summer and would all be happy with a win in either or close fought games. We all expected France to beat us in the 6N. We went into the SA game in the WC as 50/50 and either team could have won it. The QF as optimistic rather than expectant despite having had a very good recent record over NZ and great form in the lead up. I remember being anxious in the run up to the Scotland game as a team who could cause us big problems if they got a platform which we won comfortably.

    We’re quite a pessimistic bunch at heart when it comes to sport despite what the mainly white Afrikaner media want to portray.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We all expected France to beat us in the 6N

    I didn't 🤷‍♂️

    I also wasn't remotely worried about Scotland. But both those turned out to be true so I'm good.

    I thought we had a good shot against NZ but it was clearly a 60/40 game at best and it more or less turned out like that.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the bookies currently have the spread at 6 points in favour of South Africa. i think it will be between 6 and 10 myself, before ireland names.

    this tour will only be of use of we get to see how our more inexperienced players deal with playing the world cup winners. Hopefully casey and frawley start and casey puts in a good enough performance with firm the role as the back up 9, and well enough again to close the gap on JGP. In my opinion this is the single most important "learning" we will take from the tour.

    Crowley is still very inexperienced at this level, but he is the incumbent and has a bit of distance between himself and his nearest rival for the jersey, and to be fair, hes currently a better out half than any of them. Hopefully he can show control in the face of a pack not getting it their own way.

    i expect James Ryan to start on the bench, which i hope gives him sufficient kick in the ass to bring his game to an even higher level than he can. He does all the lock work to a high standard, he just needs to find an extra point of difference.

    Jimmy O Brien and Ciaran Frawley both have had tough games at 15 recently, and will need to show that they are solid in the aerial battle if they are to have any hope of getting meaningful game time in green, and not just being bit part bench utility players. Is Osbourne a valid option there? He has a massive boot as well



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Hopefully Frawley starts where? 15? Would rather JOB there personally.

    I would have thought Casey would start 6 months ago, but he's not on a great run of form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Rumour going around alright that Osborne is in contention to start at 15.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,742 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    That would be madness.

    Not Stockdale at 15 v France level of madness. But madness nonetheless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Osborne would be a huge gamble, great player but experience at 15 is minimal

    I don’t think we’ll win, our absentees are more impactful than theirs, it’s in SA and I think we’re knackered. If we’re competitive and get to see some decent minutes for some newer faces, I’ll be happy with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I think it would be very surprising but I'll admit I wouldn't be overly disappointed to see it. I think JOB is an excellent, well rounded player but I don't hugely rate him as a full back and I think a team that kicks well can really go after him there.

    Osborne was a full back by trade originally. He only has a couple of starts for Leinster there but has a good bit of back three experience overall and his boot is a weapon. I think he's probably a better fielder overall than JOB but there would obviously be serious concerns around positioning there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Tbh I'd says that's a rumour and only a rumour. Its an interesting idea as he certainly has a big ol boot to send the ball back into touch, but as you say minimal experience. Not the environment to try him out either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,742 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    To make your Test debut in a position you don't play for your club, away from home, In SA and at Loftus Versfeld! Against an opposition that is going to be kick heavy. It would be very unfair on Osborne.

    However, I wouldn't have a problem with him starting at 12.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Osborne has a kicking game similar to Lowe. He gets huge distance on his kicks so maybe we're looking at having another option to relieve pressure?



  • Administrators Posts: 56,245 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I am going to file this rumour in the nonsense bin, but if it is somehow true then Osborne at 15 really would highlight how moronic it was sending Keenan off.

    I am all for finding alternatives to Keenan but to pick a lad who doesn't play 15 against a team that will torture him with kicks is a completely unnecessary risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,742 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Yeah its a great weapon to have and needed option really. Keenan is a great FB but clearing kicks aren't his forte. Same for JOB.

    Position Osborne (12) near Lowe like we saw v LaR.

    I was expecting Osborne to make his debut in Nov. Aki is 34, 35 when is CC is up at the end of next season.

    it's a big call to start Osborne instead of Aki. He's ready though.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Is Osbourne at 15 any different, AT THIS STAGE OF HIS CAREER, to picking JOB or Frawley?

    All three are swiss army knife players, all three have professional starts in 3 or more back line positions.

    Maybe Farrell sees things in Osbourne at 15 that he can see in Frawley at 10?

    Osbourne was the 15 for even minute of the 2021 U20s 6N, and has played there for Leinster, starting 2 games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    People want experimenting and then when Osborne Is rumoured to be starting at 15 suddenly its "nooooo"…pick a lane guys.

    .At the end of the day Farrell wouldnt name him at 15 unless he felt he was ready and able. It also wouldnt be the first time Farrell made a call and was totally vindicated so I back him.

    At the end of day would I rather play Osborne who has potential to be world class over O'Brien or Frawley who while very good are never realistically going to displace Keenan.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Where is the evidence we are "knackered" or are you just making that up like others?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Interesting video

    All the people on this video who say Ireland is the best team in the World, none are Irish

    Yet Ireland get accused of been big headed

    Lots of advertisement for Off the ball, free as well



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    not really. We simply don't have a next best actual 15 (at least without restarting the Haley debate, but he's not in great form anyway)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Well it's a one score game just like the bookies say regardless of how much the media and bloggers try to make stuff up to suit the narrative they are trying to create.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What exactly are you expecting? Its the end of a 13 month season for the players and they flamed out at the end of the provincial season. Fatigue would certainly be one explanation.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Not really what?

    if Osbourne is being looked at at 15, isnt that Farrell looking to see who might be the next best 15?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sorry, not really any different to picking JOB or Frawley. I'm essentially agreeing with you.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    exactly. Both the named players there have shown issues lately aerially. If its a "let see how osbourne gets on" viewpoint im all for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Come on now. People call for experimenting with other players who actually play the position.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,742 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I think so. It would be a bit different if it wasn't against SA. FB is a specialist position and probably the most difficult (& 13) to defend from.

    de Klerk, le Roux and Pollard would have a field day.

    Henshaw v England but worse.

    Even if you are playing FB for your club it's a big step UP (1350m) to play the WC in their own back yard.

    I do think JOB will struggle but in fairness he has enough experience (and recent form) to play there.



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