Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking

1…397398400402403…566

Comments

  • #11972
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331828#Comment_122331828

    The guy had racked up tens of thousands in fines, and preferred jail rather than purge his contempt, what possible reason have you to think that a lesser sentence like those handed down in the US, would be any more successful in breaking his resolve.

    By the way, Steve Bannon hasn’t given any indication that his sentence would prevent him from doing it again, in fact it is being reported in US media today that he said he was proud to go to prison and will be more powerful on his release. So I wouldn’t be holding that up as an example of effective justice.



  • #11973
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,169 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Excellent video of him, the Bro and Ma Burke outside the 'Joy extolling the great feeling of freedom to refuse to have people telling him how to behave towards others.



  • #11974
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331866#Comment_122331866

    It's not about "breaking his resolve" per se , it's about facilitating his incarceration more equitably.

    The Judges are rightfully getting concerned about the idea of him being held in essentially indefinite confinement without an actual formal charge , which is why Sanfey let him out because on balance he felt that because the school was closed he "technically" couldn't breach the injunction which was better than ongoing confinement without charge.

    My fear is that when he violates the injunction in September (and he will) the Judges might not want to send him back to jail for ~9 months until the end of term.

    However I don't think they'd have any concerns about simply sending him to jail for 6 months at a time or whatever with a definitive charge and duration of confinement attached.

    Whether they do that once or 20 times I don't think they'll mind , but they are worried about the implications of Enochs utter intransigence under the current contempt rules so a solution has to be found.



  • #11975
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I wonder has any of the kids asked the others if they really believe in that nonsense. Like in This is England when they leave the national front meeting and one of the lads gets thrown out in the middle of nowhere for questioning the crap they’d just heard.



  • #11976
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332177#Comment_122332177

    I think you just answered your own question, what would be the penalty for going against the family? I suspect the penalty would hurt more than a stint in jail.



  • Advertisement
  • #11977
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,169 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332196#Comment_122332196

    Alas poor Fred [Phelps], I knew him well….



  • #11978
    Leg End Reject
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    In another telling paragraph, he explains his belief that to honour the Bible gospel, you must suffer. In short, life is not about enjoying yourself. “Hedonism revives a familiarity with all that Christ is against.

    “Persecution, affliction, burdens, sorrow, grief, loss and toil are to be expected. But these are transient compared to the smile of Christ. Go forth to obey. His blessing will come, and your cup will overflow.”

    This explains a lot.

    https://forumofgames.com/



  • #11979
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    “Persecution, affliction, burdens, sorrow, grief, loss and toil are to be expected. But these are transient compared to the smile of Christ. Go forth to obey. His blessing will come, and your cup will overflow.” - Enoch Burke.

    He thinks he is going to be rewarded for this. The poor fool.

    I wonder how different his life could have been, if he'd gone to the pub that night.



  • #11980
    scottser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭scottser


    So he's been released so the school can sack him properly. Anyone any idea when that's going to happen?

    Also, the whole issue of religious types being too uptight to enjoy music and dancing has been thoroughly explored and resolved in the 80s movie Footloose, and is the final word on the subject as far as I'm concerned.



  • #11981
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332464#Comment_122332464

    Great film, nice reference.

    As weird as we think the Burkes are, in parts of the US, they would just be locals.



  • Advertisement
  • #11982
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,820 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327388#Comment_122327388

    Not to drag the thread off course, but here they are doing the same:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtQnOPcxxA


  • #11983
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331828#Comment_122331828

    There is a contempt of court criminal offence in Ireland although, as far as I can judge, Burke hasn't committed it. (Going by newspaper reports, other members of the Burke family have, with their behaviour in court, but I think not Enoch). And, as already pointed out, while there are trespass-based offences in Ireland, it's not clear that Burke has committed any of them either.

    So, if we want to deal with Burke via the criminal courts, the first thing we have to do is to identify a crime he has committed.



  • #11984
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333236#Comment_122333236

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/section/13/enacted/en/html

    We have.



  • #11985
    chooseusername
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333384#Comment_122333384

    But he has a reasonable excuse to be at the school. He is being paid to teach at the school, (in his weird way of thinking)



  • #11986
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331694#Comment_122331694

    uh misrepresenting the story there, it’s not a communal area

    uh, no I didn't.

    An Bord Pleanála previously indicated the area “has been habitually open to the public for recreational purposes”.

    The planning authority declined permission for a 60cm dwarf wall to surround the green as it believed enclosing the space would “seriously injure the visual and residential amenities of the area”.

    In 2021, South Dublin County Council passed a motion to rezone it as a public green space under its county development plan.



  • #11987
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333473#Comment_122333473

    He has been sacked, he has absolutely no excuse to be at the school.

    He still being paid is a technicality because he refuses to engage in the process.



  • #11988
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    He's still getting paid right? Makes no sense at all to me.

    He still owes a load of money in fines too. Why not collect it?



  • #11989
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333384#Comment_122333384

    To secure a section 13 conviction, it's necessary to show that the trespass was done "in such a manner as causes or is likely to cause fear in another person". It's necessary to have evidence showing this, not just conjecture.

    What evidence do we have to show that Burke's trespass caused or was likely to cause fear in anybody? Ridicule, derision, annoyance, anger, resentment — quite possibly. But fear? S.13 is part of a suite of offences that include riot (s. 14), violent disorder (s. 16) and affray (s. 17), so the fear we're talking about here is something like the fear of disorder, or fear for the safety of oneself or another.

    IIRC, Burke was arrested on suspicion of trespass but was ultimately not prosecuted. Others in the thread have suggested that the authorities were afraid to prosecute him, but it seems more likely to me that that the decision was driven by a sober assessment of the evidence, and the risk or even likelihood of an acquittal.



  • #11990
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333536#Comment_122333536

    It's a school containing literal children. We have a serial trespasser with a history of aggression. What evidence do you think would be required? Anyone else would be dragged into a back of a Paddy Wagon.

    You are trying too hard to fair this could not be more clear cut.

    It's very simple.

    Arrest him for trespass.

    Bail him on conditions.

    Arrest and detain him for breaking his bail when he shows up again.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Exactly how anyone else in this state would be treated.



  • #11991
    chooseusername
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333513#Comment_122333513

    I agree, hence the bit in brackets.



  • Advertisement
  • #11992
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333571#Comment_122333571

    What evidence do I think would be required? Evidence of all the elements of the offence, as set out in the legislation.

    It's not enough to produce evidence that Burke has a history of aggression. That's not an element of the offence. For slow learners, what you need to show, with evidence, is that the manner of Burke's trespass caused or was likely to cause fear.

    Burke is being treated exactly as anyone else in the state would be treated — nobody gets convicted of an offence without each element of the offence being made out by evidence.



  • #11993
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333612#Comment_122333612

    is that the manner of Burke's trespass caused or was likely to cause fear.

    That evidence would be the principle or staff saying so. Again it's a school.

    It's a pretty simple thing for a prosecution to put forward, also the defence would be his nutty family ranting and raving.

    Anyway this weirdo was locked up because his breached bail.

    https://www.southernstar.ie/news/man-accused-of-trespass-in-hi-vis-is-refused-bail-4270811

    It's not a very hard crime to prove.



  • #11994
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Have the principal or staff said so?



  • #11995
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333666#Comment_122333666

    Yes, as have the kids. They wrote a letter to him which the coward refused to read. Can you imagine how the poor child feels? Afraid, intimidated, distressed?

    He has been arrested before for criminal trespass.

    Again, this is very very simple, we have a cult member with a history of aggression and the cult he is member of a history of violence and intimidation who has spent 400+ days incarcerated trespassing serially in a school with 100s of children.

    Our child safety particularly around schools are over engineered for a reason. We have no idea what he is capable of, therefore he should be nowhere near any school.

    This is not tough to understand, anyone else would have been dragged out there.

    I am surprised a parent hasn't done it.



  • #11996
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333841#Comment_122333841

    It would appear that it is tough to understand.

    The DPP have said the ingredients are not there for a criminal prosecution, you saying they are, doesn’t make it so.



  • #11997
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333855#Comment_122333855

    Have you a link to where the DPP published and explained their decision not to prosecute?

    There isn't any. This isn't a very hard law to understand.

    The reason not to prosecute was cowardice. Pure and simple.

    The process of confirming his sacking needs to be completed. If he doesn't show up, tough.

    Then the school need to withdraw their civil case. Make this criminal like it should have been in the first place.

    Then the DPP need to their job. By not doing it they are given Burke exactly what he wants.



  • #11998
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Boghles, you've mentioned the word cult several times, but what cult are you referring to?



  • #11999
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333966#Comment_122333966

    Presumably the Burke family, who would tick a lot of the boxes to be considered a cult.



  • #12000
    Raichų
    Site Banned Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Raichų


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333509#Comment_122333509

    which is still not complete and until such time it is the land is owned by the property owner.
    Taking some random snippets from the article doesn’t make you right.
    Why don’t you copy the line where it clearly states the owner of the house owns the green area?



  • Advertisement
  • #12001
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    ah I caught Josie boys video on FB, they sure do mention constitution a lot. Odd for a crowd that want to put their god before everything.



Advertisement