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Is everybody broke?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here is some data on the distribution of incomes, again, at the household level.

    This is for the calendar year 2022, but published by the CSO in the 2023 SILC.

    image.png

    Households in the poorest decile have net disposable income, on average, of 280.75 per week.

    That won't go far, after rent/mortgage, utility bills, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Yes, but that only exposes the OPs biases - "I'm struggling therefore everybody must be". The truth is most people aren't, and the country is awash with money (at least at present).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭crossman47


    That has to be a total exaggeration. Prices have gone up but nothing like you suggest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,197 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    the median (not mean, median) salary in ireland is approx 45k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭Deeec


    But nowadays even 80k a year after tax is not alot. If you have a mortgage, car, children etc you won't have much disposable income left.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …and again, we re back to averages, this actually isnt the case, most are not earning 50k and above, which means a large proportion of the population is actually exposed here, and is starting to struggle with meeting needs, lower rates might just relive some of this pressure, but inflation has also been extremely difficult for this part of the population. yes those earning 50k and above arent feeling this as much, baring many of these individuals probably also have high levels of debt….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭DataDude


    Interesting to see that almost 30% of households are making more than €100k gross. Probably will be 30% by the time 2024 inflation is factored in.

    Just shows how that oft cited level needs upward recalibration!

    Do also wonder just how understated the numbers are due to self employed people under declaring. Suspect plenty of trades people around the country doing a lot better than their tax returns would suggest!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here is some earnings data.

    Please note this is not income data.

    Please note this is mean data, not median data, so it is affected by outliers.

    image.png

    Industry = 60k

    ICT = 93k

    FIRE = 77k

    Education = 52k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,197 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm not exaggerating. We both work in tech and have good salaries, we are lucky. We have a mortgage, 2 relatively new cars on the drive, 2 teenagers, foreign holiday coming up etc. We also don't really have an electric bill as I bought a massive solar setup that covers 80-90% of our use, either through export credits or direct use. So we're not broke. We're in a priveleged position. But the point I was making is, we now have switched to Aldi and Lidl almost 100% of shopping and even at that we're at double the grocery spend in euro cost terms compared to 2020-21.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here is some more earnings data.

    Please note this is not income data.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2022/annualearnings/

    This series has both the mean and median annual earnings

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Here is some earnings data.

    Please note this is not income data.

    Please note this is mean data, not median data, so it is affected by outliers.

    This is for full-time workers only

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,112 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Debatable if manifestations of wealth; jammed restaurants and shiny new (but poverty spec) cars are people doing really well or people putting on a show for friends and neighbours, but counting pennies behind the scenes.

    Fur coat but no knickers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    We aren't back to averages since I'm quoting the 5th decile of the income distribution.

    For households in the fifth decile (i.e. the mid-point of the income distribution) the mean weekly gross income was €1,223, composed of an average €941 (76.9%) market income and €282 (23.1%) in social transfers. After deductions, households in the fifth decile had an average of €972 in disposable income.

    The median household disposable income in 2023 was €50162.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭BailMeOut


    hold old are you? If in your 20's then its normal to be broke at this age. If you are in you 40's then a different matter.

    The irish economy is roaring, there is zero unemployment, wages are up and inflation is at its lowest point in years. People are taking foreign holidays in record numbers, new cars sales are high and 12,000 first time home buyers in the last six months. To add to that the stock market is going gang busters so all private pensions are looking very good for anyone retiring soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 983 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Before the pandemic, I was doing well, but my wages haven’t increased in four years due to working primarily from home. Meanwhile, the cost of living has risen. Unfortunately, after lockdown, I indulged in a spending spree, and now I find myself burdened with loans I probably shouldn’t have taken out. Specifically, car loans, electricity bills, and shopping expenses have added pressure over the last two years. Interestingly, younger people are moving back home and using their high incomes to splurge on shopping and dining out. However, it’s young families who seem most stressed, dealing with mortgages and rising bills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I've posted similar charts before. It is possible to see where we sit among the developed European countries in terms of the sort of money we have to play around with.

    image.png

    This shows us between Slovenia and Italy. We are behind both the European and Euro area average and not really that much ahead of Spain, Portugal, Czechia etc. In addition to being relatively low by European terms, our accommodation situation means that a significant portion of the population might be having tough times compared to similar groups in other countries lower on the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,476 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I see the data from your first paragraph in the CSO SILC data okay.

    But the 50,162 figure, I don't see that?

    Okay, I see it now, you are using 2019 base year data, okay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    We all do that well me anyway

    I went through spending and tax and vat audits

    Now i just give my money to my surviving children because meanness is a vice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭argentum




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭muzakfan


    To be harsh about it: Wages in retail are pretty well known in advance of accepting employment in the sector. It's also an industry on its last legs and not likely to improve. Those people will need to leave retail to improve their lot.

    As others have stated, there are plenty of people in this country on much better wages than that, there are multiple large industries where salaries in Ireland are significantly above comparative salaries in other EU states.

    And it's not the "lucky few", most Irish people I would attest enjoy a significantly better quality of life than their comparative person in our nearest large neighbour.

    There's also heavily subsidized/free education and training opportunities if you want to jump on said "gravy train". Self-improvement is only marginally tougher than self pity, and a lot more satisfying.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭DataDude


    Median household disposable income in 2023 was €55,149.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-silc/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc2023/

    This data looks very odd. $38k dollars ~ €35k average gross household income in Ireland when CSO median gross is €65k or so. Is this on a different basis?

    It’s also seems very odd that Italy has a higher income profile than Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 BLFOTR


    My son works in retail in Dundrum shopping centre and they've noticed a substantial drop in sales the last few weeks. They've held off on hiring for the foreseeable also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭hello2020


    this may be the impact of EU getting RELATIVELY poor/stagnant and south east asia getting richer.. consumption has increased in Asia which means less goods to export to west..

    its high time manufacturing is re started in EU but soaring energy cost is hindrance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,194 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    privileged for paying off your mortgage?

    How about hard work that has resulted in you paying off your mortgage ffs!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    The more people earn ... the more they spend. I don't buy this "poor me". It's down to lifestyle, budgeting and self-control. I have been through the storm, back in 2009.. had to cut back on everything.

    Somebody earning 50k can be wealthier than another person earning 100k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,555 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    it's also a standard of living thing. it's gone up so much in the last 30 years, i.e. how much everyone consumes, that not being able to afford more than one foreign holiday a year would make a lot of people consider themselves struggling. no one really went on them until recently. i remember being in friends' houses in the 90s even that were council houses and nowadays it would be considered extreme poverty. no double glazing, supersers, run down af.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Teenagers eat you out of house and home!

    Food has increased massively, though Aldi and Lidl are still the cheapest in general.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,292 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,102 ✭✭✭✭fits


    we are seeing it with the food bills also. We have been getting groceries delivered but might go back to physical shopping in ALDI as more free in summer months. 7 year olds also eating us out of house and home.

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