Guys, I’m just wondering what’s your current situation like?
I work and retail in the west of Ireland and here it seems there’s a new shop closing down nearly every week, and people seem to be struggling. Are we getting into another recession?
Yah, but where are the CSO acquiring this data? I could be wrong but I don't recall in any recent census being asked to fill in our annual income and detail our annual outgoings categorised by necessity and disposable. And anyway the figures you have are annualised. Revenue don't collect this information either.
So who does? Some survey of a supposedly representative group? It may be a guide of sorts but we all know of the pitfalls in polling and surveys. Just who is asking the questions, how are they phrased, who's paying for the exercise, what's their perspective, how are people selected and so on. Garbage in, garbage out or Flour in, Bread out - you can as easily get nonsense or an answer you plan for.
we are seeing it with the food bills also. We have been getting groceries delivered but might go back to physical shopping in ALDI as more free in summer months. 7 year olds also eating us out of house and home.
Which one Argentum? Didn't hear that
Teenagers eat you out of house and home!
Food has increased massively, though Aldi and Lidl are still the cheapest in general.
it's also a standard of living thing. it's gone up so much in the last 30 years, i.e. how much everyone consumes, that not being able to afford more than one foreign holiday a year would make a lot of people consider themselves struggling. no one really went on them until recently. i remember being in friends' houses in the 90s even that were council houses and nowadays it would be considered extreme poverty. no double glazing, supersers, run down af.
The more people earn ... the more they spend. I don't buy this "poor me". It's down to lifestyle, budgeting and self-control. I have been through the storm, back in 2009.. had to cut back on everything.
Somebody earning 50k can be wealthier than another person earning 100k.
privileged for paying off your mortgage?
How about hard work that has resulted in you paying off your mortgage ffs!
this may be the impact of EU getting RELATIVELY poor/stagnant and south east asia getting richer.. consumption has increased in Asia which means less goods to export to west..
its high time manufacturing is re started in EU but soaring energy cost is hindrance
My son works in retail in Dundrum shopping centre and they've noticed a substantial drop in sales the last few weeks. They've held off on hiring for the foreseeable also.
Median household disposable income in 2023 was €55,149.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-silc/surveyonincomeandlivingconditionssilc2023/
This data looks very odd. $38k dollars ~ €35k average gross household income in Ireland when CSO median gross is €65k or so. Is this on a different basis?
It’s also seems very odd that Italy has a higher income profile than Ireland.
I wanna tell you something, try it sometime.
To be harsh about it: Wages in retail are pretty well known in advance of accepting employment in the sector. It's also an industry on its last legs and not likely to improve. Those people will need to leave retail to improve their lot.
As others have stated, there are plenty of people in this country on much better wages than that, there are multiple large industries where salaries in Ireland are significantly above comparative salaries in other EU states.
And it's not the "lucky few", most Irish people I would attest enjoy a significantly better quality of life than their comparative person in our nearest large neighbour.
There's also heavily subsidized/free education and training opportunities if you want to jump on said "gravy train". Self-improvement is only marginally tougher than self pity, and a lot more satisfying.
Hanleys furniture
We all do that well me anyway
I went through spending and tax and vat audits
Now i just give my money to my surviving children because meanness is a vice
I see the data from your first paragraph in the CSO SILC data okay.
But the 50,162 figure, I don't see that?
Okay, I see it now, you are using 2019 base year data, okay.
I've posted similar charts before. It is possible to see where we sit among the developed European countries in terms of the sort of money we have to play around with.
This shows us between Slovenia and Italy. We are behind both the European and Euro area average and not really that much ahead of Spain, Portugal, Czechia etc. In addition to being relatively low by European terms, our accommodation situation means that a significant portion of the population might be having tough times compared to similar groups in other countries lower on the list.
Before the pandemic, I was doing well, but my wages haven’t increased in four years due to working primarily from home. Meanwhile, the cost of living has risen. Unfortunately, after lockdown, I indulged in a spending spree, and now I find myself burdened with loans I probably shouldn’t have taken out. Specifically, car loans, electricity bills, and shopping expenses have added pressure over the last two years. Interestingly, younger people are moving back home and using their high incomes to splurge on shopping and dining out. However, it’s young families who seem most stressed, dealing with mortgages and rising bills.
hold old are you? If in your 20's then its normal to be broke at this age. If you are in you 40's then a different matter.
The irish economy is roaring, there is zero unemployment, wages are up and inflation is at its lowest point in years. People are taking foreign holidays in record numbers, new cars sales are high and 12,000 first time home buyers in the last six months. To add to that the stock market is going gang busters so all private pensions are looking very good for anyone retiring soon.
We aren't back to averages since I'm quoting the 5th decile of the income distribution.
For households in the fifth decile (i.e. the mid-point of the income distribution) the mean weekly gross income was €1,223, composed of an average €941 (76.9%) market income and €282 (23.1%) in social transfers. After deductions, households in the fifth decile had an average of €972 in disposable income.
The median household disposable income in 2023 was €50162.
Debatable if manifestations of wealth; jammed restaurants and shiny new (but poverty spec) cars are people doing really well or people putting on a show for friends and neighbours, but counting pennies behind the scenes.
Fur coat but no knickers.
Here is some earnings data.
Please note this is not income data.
Please note this is mean data, not median data, so it is affected by outliers.
This is for full-time workers only
Here is some more earnings data.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2022/annualearnings/
This series has both the mean and median annual earnings
I'm not exaggerating. We both work in tech and have good salaries, we are lucky. We have a mortgage, 2 relatively new cars on the drive, 2 teenagers, foreign holiday coming up etc. We also don't really have an electric bill as I bought a massive solar setup that covers 80-90% of our use, either through export credits or direct use. So we're not broke. We're in a priveleged position. But the point I was making is, we now have switched to Aldi and Lidl almost 100% of shopping and even at that we're at double the grocery spend in euro cost terms compared to 2020-21.
Industry = 60k
ICT = 93k
FIRE = 77k
Education = 52k
Interesting to see that almost 30% of households are making more than €100k gross. Probably will be 30% by the time 2024 inflation is factored in.
Just shows how that oft cited level needs upward recalibration!
Do also wonder just how understated the numbers are due to self employed people under declaring. Suspect plenty of trades people around the country doing a lot better than their tax returns would suggest!
…and again, we re back to averages, this actually isnt the case, most are not earning 50k and above, which means a large proportion of the population is actually exposed here, and is starting to struggle with meeting needs, lower rates might just relive some of this pressure, but inflation has also been extremely difficult for this part of the population. yes those earning 50k and above arent feeling this as much, baring many of these individuals probably also have high levels of debt….
But nowadays even 80k a year after tax is not alot. If you have a mortgage, car, children etc you won't have much disposable income left.
the median (not mean, median) salary in ireland is approx 45k
That has to be a total exaggeration. Prices have gone up but nothing like you suggest.
Yes, but that only exposes the OPs biases - "I'm struggling therefore everybody must be". The truth is most people aren't, and the country is awash with money (at least at present).
