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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his CO. Jailed after appeal

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    If it was polite why did the author of the article feel the need to highlight this word in such a fashion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,466 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No surprise at all here from you.

    What is your take on what he did to her, and the judge's verdict?

    You are ever so subtly trying to downplay this horrific attack, like you have done other times.

    Sorry, but that is the way it looks.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I heard a clip of Natasha speaking earlier. She said that Crotty had used his combat training on her, and that training was funded by taxpayers' money. Her anger and disbelief were palpable.

    The career the judge was so concerned about is surely over, the Defence Forces can't justify keeping him on. I'd imagine a lot of his colleagues are angry and disgusted too, this kind of mud sticks to an organisation if it's not dealt with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,837 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    been going on for decades now- a law onto themselves- I hope this new tribunal puts the sh1ts up some serving and former members but likely they’re unreachable - for serving members who were perpetrators, cue long term sick leave and early retirement on full package with a golden handshake/ the usual boll0x



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,519 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    A bit odd that the army didn't discharge him once they became of it and the fact that he admitted it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,358 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Standard practice to indicate that the word or phrase was said by someone.

    The word or phrase so highlighted will appear in the body of the article.

    Not your ornery onager



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,033 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    because they were probably quoting it from the trial?

    a journalist doesn't use quotes like that in the way you would use air quotes in a sarcastic way, while talking to someone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,509 ✭✭✭SteM


    It's the way the article is written, it looks like it was done by an intern. Look at other quotes from the article:

    Crotty admitted to gardaí that he "punched" Ms O'Brien "four times". He also admitted: "I hit her when she fell."

    Crotty told gardaí he realised he had "f****d up" and he ran off.

    Judge Tom O’Donnell wished Ms O’Brien well and asked her if she understood "the significance" of Crotty’s guilty plea in that it had eliminated the necessity for a trial which would have compounded her trauma, and that if Crotty had contested the case, it would have been prolonged by approximately 18 months.

    Judge Tom O'Donnell, said that Crotty’s actions on the night were "utterly appalling" and he had "no doubt" that if he imposed a jail sentence on him, his army "career is over".

    The author takes quotes all through the article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Caustic


    Yes they'd learn so much in a foreign prison where they couldn't speak the language, not to mention thats a tired old trope anywyas. Try engaging one of your two brain cells



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Tánaiste (and Minister for Defence) responds to this horror show. He can hide for the moment behind the ongoing judicial process but he can’t explain the evidence of Cmdt. Togher. Even after he spoke to the Chief of Staff.

    The Tánaiste said the senior officer was not in court to offer any kind of character reference on behalf of the soldier.

    That just won’t wash, Micheál, and I think you know it. Togher went way beyond any obligation as a C.O. or the Irish Defence Forces make the Catholic Church look like amateurs in the cover-up game.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/micheal-martin-natasha-obrien-6415861-Jun2024/

    I would love to see Crotty’s face when his solicitor explains that the DPP will appeal the leniency of his sentence, that he will be lucky if the High Court doesn’t give him 8 years with one suspended. It’s only when he spends a night in jail that the penny will drop that he is among the most reviled prisoners, along with the likes of Graham Dwyer and Josef Puska. In solitary for his own safety, with just an hour of exercise a day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    In the accused's mind, it was possibly interpreted as a provocation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,837 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Procedure I believe - I think they’re prohibited from taking disciplinary action until legal proceedings end- they’ve ended now so hope they do a better job than our own legal system did



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I imagine they couldn't do anything legally until the court case had come to an end i.e. they had to wait for a verdict and conclusion to legal proceedings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,466 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Ah, that makes it alright so……while the rest of decent society walk around on fooking egg shells

    There was NO provocation….you know it, and we all know it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,208 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    This gets more and more absurd as it goes on.

    In that case, anything could be a 'provocation' if someone viewed it that way 'in their mind'.

    A glance the wrong way at someone? 'PROVOCATION!'

    Absurd.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    In the accused mind this assault was something worth boasting about on Snapchat.

    Give it up, there's already been a post explaining what provocation means in a legal sense. You were wrong, stop digging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,837 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    hahahahahahahahaha

    So no is the answer - glad we cleared that one up.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 8,545 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    My reading of this is that they could only start their own proceedings once the case was over.

    IMG_4743.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,837 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I hope “resigning” isn’t an option open to this POS before what hopefully will be a court martial happens



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,431 ✭✭✭Billy Mays




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,466 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If the legal eagles have any say in it you can bet resigning will be a poxy option



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I have specifically stated that it was not her fault that she was being attacked, so don’t twist my words please. I did raise an eyebrow though when reading the article and wondered why the individual word was out in “”. I reckon the other poster had read it the same way and therefore assumed that this might have aggravated Crotty enough to attack her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Which would be worse in this case


    - The judge knew the defendant would be dishonourably discharged but used the risk that the defendant might lose his job as a pretext for suspending the sentence in full

    -The Judge thought this defendant should remain as a member of our Defence Forces, based on the evidence of his commanding officer.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 8,545 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Imagine that scumbag with a gun in his hands. Doesn't bear thinking about.
    I hope the friends who stood by, if they were also army, get hauled over the coals. Only for that man who intervened, it's very possible that scumbag could have been facing an even more serious charge.

    I can't get over what the judge chose to say. On top of the appalling suspended sentence. He was concerned for the scumbag's job. As well as everything else she went through, that girl lost her job. That obviously didn't matter.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'd say the coward will try to jump before he's pushed, but he might just wait and take the money in the interim.

    It's not as if he has lucrative career options ahead of him, he couldn't even the follow the typical ex-army route of bouncer/security work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭jackboy


    His life in Ireland is essentially over now anyway. He will have to emigrate which I'm sure he is planning already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,466 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What's your take on what he did to her, and the judge's verdict? You are in and out of the thread, but with no real input, only to try and create some opposition, and it reads to me as downplaying it all

    Good of you to say it "wasn't her fault" that she was attacked.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    You might want to read further down the article. Armies are run by both policies and regulations far more strictly than most of society.

    From the article:

    "When a member of the Defence Forces is before the civilian courts, there is an obligation under regulations, that the commanding officer be present so as to cooperate with the court’s requirements, but also to report back on proceedings to the Defence Forces, he added.  

    Martin said the superior commander can be cross examined, as he was on this occasion by both the defence and prosecution."

    If indeed he is there to "cooperate with the court's requirements", what was the officer supposed to do? Refuse to cooperate with the proceedings and not honestly and truthfully answer the questions put to him in the courtroom as part of the proceedings?

    There is going to be no utterly definitive answer to the question of "what should he have said" unless someone starts quoting the written requirements and also the transcript of the court proceedings, but the above seems to me to be a pretty good indicator that the commandant was doing what he was supposed to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    I don’t have the time to post here nonstop. I guess most of us drop in and out. I admit that I don’t get the anger directed at the person who gave the character reference.

    To me it sounds like he was spoiling for a fight and he was bound to have attacked someone. When she challenged him she became the target because he was obviously headed for that anyway. I’ve been there and in those cases the “off button” simply doesn’t exist. This needs a custodial sentence because he will likely remain dangerous until he can control himself. Saying that it’s pretty certain that this will be appealed anyway. I hope this clarifies things for you.



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  • Posts: 832 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    you mean the one where the priest stood up in court and shook a rapists hand and told everyone that she was basically a slut? That one?

    I stand corrected, I was thinking of this case

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sex-victim-they-would-not-serve-me-in-shop/26593504.html



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