Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

1187188190192193391

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The thread is titled ‘How will SF form a government’ not how will SF becone a minor party.
    I suggest you stop trying to put words in posters mouths.
    I made a point based on observation that SF won’t be the minor party through choice. Have you anything to offer that says they will?
    What indications have they given that they will repeat what Labour and the Greens have done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If you want to control what posters are saying, well first off I would suggest you stop with the personal jibes which are daily, based on the claim you want to "debate"

    You made a point which says you won't vote for someone who will be a mudguard, well are been "blocked" in last election and now are going looking for a partner which has said multiple times they don't agree with their policies and will never agree to them

    So bingo bango, who is the mudguard here is SF are to get into government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Please try again as that makes no sense as a point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    FG sat aside for quite a while before talking to anyone, assuming that the top two parties would work something out. SF had more than enough time to woo FF and form a government but apart from declaring victory and waiting for FF to fall at their feet, they did precisely nothing, they didn't even make a serious effort to build a coalition of the left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Interesting to see 'or equals' introduced to your thinking, is that new? Has something changed?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    None so blind as those who will not see….

    You know exactly the point being made. This is just more deflection from you.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I answered the part of the post that makes sense. The second part makes no sense to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Quite obviously the last four years have told us that FF can be trusted in that regard, as they held up their end of the deal and first elected Leo and then Simon as Taoiseach.

    Trust is a much much bigger issue when it comes to Sinn Fein. Their record in the North of pulling down governments for little or no reason gives nobody any trust in them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     for little or no reason 

    That is just your personal distaste for SF dictating what is a good or bad reason for pulling down governments.

    Irish governments have fallen repeatedly because a coalition party has had enough and will not support it anymore. Same thing happens in the North and everywhere else there are coalitions.

    Of course blind eyes will be turned to that staple of coalitions if it means SF can be isolated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Difference there is that both Civil War parties wanted to keep SF out so had a large common ground. Generally speaking FF can't be trusted with a whole lot

    Wasn't it the DUP, who we know are close FG allies, that collapsed Stormont on the basis of an Irish language bill? And then refused to take their seats as they were going to hold the "deputy first minister" role



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The paranoia that it is all about Sinn Fein displays an enormous amount of arrogance. FF and FG came together for the good of the country. Remember FG were happy to step back into opposition until it became clear that SF were unable/unwilling to form a government and FG stepped up to the plate in the country's interest.

    Sinn Fein have been responsible for most of the time that Stormont has been collapsed, and it was them who collapsed it because there wasn't an Irish language bill.

    Not a single party trusts Sinn Fein, that will be the focus of the election.

    Vote Greens, Labour or Social Democrats if you want a left-wing voice in government, vote Sinn Fein or PBP if you want a left-wing voice shouting in the wilderness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF walked because the First Minister, embroiled in a corruption scandal, would not stand aside (she wasn't asked to resign, just asked to step aside) and because of the longer running misuse of the Petition Of Concern being used to block agreed(by a majority of MLA's) rights.
    The DUP pulled it down and used the people as hostages to try to get something that Stormont couldn't give and could not, even if there was majority agreement (there wasn't anyway) effect.

    Our last coalition government here fell because the main party did not have the support.

    Coalitions collapse, everywhere. Nothing unique about that, here or in north or anywhere else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The Greens have changed this country dramatically from the position of being a very small party. They have no concern for whether that results in them being decimated, because from their perspective, the permanent changes they have made will benefit the greater good. Those changes won't be reversed - watch the election campaign where SF will have to back down and support everything the Greens did. A long-lasting legacy through achievement means that the Greens rank far far above Sinn Fein in what they have done for this country.

    Effectively, what you are saying is that you will only vote for a party that puts its own self-interests in maintaining power ahead of the best interests of the country. Labour in 2011 put the interests of the country first and lost out, the Greens in 2020 the same. Those parties will be getting my first two preferences for a long time because of that willingness to put the country first.

    Anyone like you who votes for a party on the basis that they are putting self-preservation first is beneath contempt and the parties like that - FF and SF - don't get any preference from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Greens have changed this country dramatically 

    Most of the dramatic change in this country was driven by our membership of the EU.
    And the Irish Greens are no longer represented there.
    Changes will continue to happen across the EU without their input.

    I never mentioned anything about 'self preservation'.

    What I object to is smaller parties allowing themselves to be used and willingly allowing whatever mandate they have to be diluted and ignored to …eh…help preserve FF or FG dominance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    SF met with the Greens first after the last election, not a single party in Ireland came to an agreement with SF

    So instead of talking about FF and FG maybe you should consider why no party joined with them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The Greens stuck to a plan and delivered on it, something they can be proud of, a lot of good has been done in a short space of time by the green party

    Which of course made them a target for some other party supporters who have driven a narrative for a few years now online.

    I do reference the most vocal anti Green person onboards who is on any thread to do with environment etc, they proudly stated they would vote SF because they would put a stop to the wind generation nonsense, then I pointed to the SF document which they released saying they would in fact speed up the deployment of wind. Another SF supporter who hadn't a clue what their policies are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Greens stuck to a plan and delivered on it, something they can be proud of, a lot of good has been done in a short space of time by the green party

    You personally are entitled to that opinion, but ultimately the electorate are the sovereign deciders of that.

    The Greens, like any other party, have done some good and some bad. And their electoral performance will wane and boom, like it does for others.

    At the moment the electorate don't seem impressed with their performance on LA's or in the EU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The greens election manifesto 2020

    A 7 per cent per year fall in emissions to reach the EU CO2 reduction target of a minimum 50 per cent by 2030.

    Current best case scenario is 29%

    EV charge points at all petrol stations

    Probably the easiest one to implement, not achieved

    retrofit 750,000 houses to improve energy efficiency

    Definitely failed

    €210 million per annum for retrofitting, and a budget of €40 million to train 20,000 workers who can specialise in this area

    Maybe we have 20,000 qualified workers specialised but I can't even find 1 to do dry lining insulation, not achieved

    all students in the State be entitled to free public transport

    Not achieved

    On education, Ms Martin said the party wanted the pupil-teacher ration to drop from the current 25 to 1, to 20 to 1 over the lifetime of the next government.

    Not achieved

    Actually I'll stop there, if anybody has a list of what they did achieve from their 2020 manifesto it might be a shorter list

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-green-party-manifesto-outlines-2-5bn-retrofitting-plan-1.4151719



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You are aware the Green Party is a small party in the government

    The achievements they have made in rewetting the bog, FiT, 0% VAT on solar, cycle lanes etc

    With such a small percentage of the government it's a lot of good news

    Anyway plenty of thread to discuss the Green Party and their achievements



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The achievements they have made in rewetting the bog, FiT, 0% VAT on solar, cycle lanes etc

    Exactly, some good ^ and as Red points out some bad/failures too.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I feel that the goal of an EV charging station at every petrol station was an open goal from 3 feet away that they managed to hit the crossbar on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You can't force a garage to install a charger if they don't want to.

    Plus the demand is not required at the moment, I have an electric car for 8 years now I think and used a public charge point maybe 10 times in that time. With bigger batteries now most people will never need to use one. But that's off topic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, I've a PHEV and I only use the home charger. If battery runs out, car switches to petrol, no point charging at station.

    Never used a public charger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,243 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So two random people on the internet absolve the Greens from failing to implement a part of their policy. That’s profound.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    End the issuing of oil and gas exploration and extraction licences and stand firmly against the importation of fracked gas from other territories. Achieved

    Ban single use plastic and set up a bottle deposit and return scheme, to dramatically reduce plastic waste. Achieved.

    Get Ireland moving by doubling investment in public transport, committing 10% of transport funds to cycling and 10% to walking. Achieved

    https://www.greenparty.ie/campaigns/all-campaigns/towards-2030-decade-change

    That is 25% of their 12 main points, all achieved, not bad for a party that is a small part of government. On the ones you list, many of them are partially achieved, such as the investment in apprenticeship. For example, look at this, another one of their twelve priorities:

    Reduce pupil-teacher ratios, invest in third-level institutions, and end pay inequality in education

    They have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio, extra investment at third-level (Funding the Future) has happened, and school secretaries have had their pay inequality addressed with caretakers next.

    Dig out their full manifesto and have a good look at it, there is a huge amount that they have implemented from their promises, much more than any other small party has ever got done. I could list many more achievements.

    But, hey, enough about the Greens, this is the SF thread. What have SF got implemented from their manifesto?

    Would that be a big fat zero?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭DubCount


    What is the SF manifesto? We want a United Ireland and we want to be in power in stead of the other lot. Everything else is just a list of promises to everyone and anyone so they can get into power. Who pays for all these promises - "the rich people". Who are the rich people - anyone with more money than you.

    At least the Greens have an ideology they believe in and are prepared to try and achieve. SF need to stop trying to be all things to all people and stand up for what they actually believe in. What promises are their priorities and how will they pay for them (the truth).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "the rich people" is a moving target with SF, first it was 140k, then it was 100k

    Next week it could be 60k based on the amount of times they struggle with maths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    End the issuing of oil and gas exploration and extraction licences and stand firmly against the importation of fracked gas from other territoriesAchieved

    Not hard to do in fairness, we never had much oil extraction off our coastline. Important to note it only affects new licences, the existing ones can carry on as usual

    Ban single use plastic and set up a bottle deposit and return scheme, to dramatically reduce plastic waste. Achieved.

    EU policies - these would have been introduced regardless of the greens making deals with the Civil War parties. If the SF manifesto said all new cars would be EVs by 2035 or I'd be as critical

    Get Ireland moving by doubling investment in public transport, committing 10% of transport funds to cycling and 10% to walking. Achieved

    Not sure on this one, there's more cycle lanes, sure, but they are vastly under-utilised and the slow moving vehicles are now polluting our environment more as a result, it feels like they just threw them anywhere without any real thought as to how they might get used, is this really the definition of success?

    I was waiting 20 minutes the other day for a bus that was 5 minutes away according to TFI Live. In the end it never showed up so I just got a taxi. Maybe I'm the exception and public transport has doubled in efficiency in other parts of the country?

    So really they only had one achievement despite having 3 of the 15, or 20% of the ministerial portfolios including transport and environment. Two places where they could have made significant improvements but they fell flat on their face



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nonsense.

    The Greens have had a huge influence on this government, that is why you lot complain about them so much.

    Even Francie claims that we don't need a Green party anymore because they have been so successful they have got the other parties to adopt their policies.

    BusConnects, Metrolink, DartPlus, Cycle lanes, pedestrian improvements, Climate Action Act, recycling, etc. The list of achievements is long.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,520 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You seem to be unsure about a lot of things. Ryan stopped theexpansion of the Corribb gas field, he stopped the development of Barryroe, has significantly delayed the Limerick Cork Motorway and other road projects, he got the Foynes railway line being build. He stopped the Tarbert/Ballylongford gas storage plant. None of these actions made economic sense and neither FG, FG or SF would have carried put those actions but the f@@ker did it.

    So stop BSing, wake up and smell the coffee

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



Advertisement