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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He is two injuries away from starting a test match. I think over a two test tour that is a risk you can take.

    However, I also just don't agree with you. I don't think it would be ideal at all, but if surrounded by an experienced team I just don't think it would be that big a deal. I also think an EI tour changes literally zero fundamentals about any of this so I don't know why you are so focused on it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Probably. From a selfish point of view I'd rather he was starting all the matches for Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Harry and Ross are more than capable and a tour with Ireland might be better for Predergast, or maybe they flip and get Harry on tour, who knows



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not selecting Kleyn in 4 years and letting him go back to south africa was one of the most obvious selection mistakes ever in irish rugby. Guys of his profile are so rare that it was just absolutely obviously a mistake. I'm not super interested in arguing with the delusional on that any more.

    You can select Byrne AND Prendergast. That way if crowley gets hurt, you can start Byrne and keep a 6-2.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He's one injury from messing up our 6-2 bench.

    I'm focusing on the EI tour because that's where guys of his level should be. Your claim that he is ready to play international test rugby is so far off that, it is jarring. Its also so far of the evaluation of his own club coach.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Just a point, which I know we are not supposed to be critical of Crowley on here, but Ross is getting battered in the media and everywhere for not been up to standard in a European final v Toulouse when he played ok, similar to the other 10 in the final

    Harry Byrne more than held his own against La Rochelle away from home, his criticism was one kick which went dead

    Both are dropped from the squad totally

    Crowley managed one win during Munster European campaign with Munster top seeds and playing the mighty Bayonne who sent over the seconds.

    Do I think Crowley should be dropped from the squad/team? no

    But just something to consider with all of the posts we see on here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I think the issue re: Prendergast is his naming in the actual squad - which indicates Farrell sees him as a genuine ten option if Crowley pulls a hamstring in the captains run. If it was purely just for experience, he could've named Byrne, brought along Prendergast as a development player, and nobody would've batted an eyelid.

    I'd be inclined to agree with @ulsteru20s that suggesting Sam Prendergast is at the level to play international rugby against a Tier 1 nation is stretching what we've seen so far. There's a reason that throwing him to Connacht for a year to develop was a genuine idea.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Crowley's form has been bad for a while imo. Literally nothing has changed with ross byrne. He's the same player he was before he got picked for ireland again, the same as last year, and the same now. When and why he gets picked or not picked baffles me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Just a point, which I know we are not supposed to be critical of Crowley on here


    This is a bit rich. Didn't you take issue recently when people suggested Ntamack is better than Ross Byrne?

    In fact, didn’t you claim that Harry Byrne was 2nd choice for Ireland??

    Here’s the point; there absolutely is room for reasonable criticism of all players on here, including Crowley, Ross Byrne etc. And Crowley hasn’t been perfect this year.

    But there’s nothing to suggest that Crowley is anything but deserved starting 10 (by a distance, imo). A point I’m sure you’d agree on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There was never the slightest bit of doubt that he was going to play international rugby come the Autumn. Most likely it is still his first cap, but there is no universe the guy isn't capped against Fiji at the very least. We are talking about this potentially being fast-tracked by a few months.

    There is no reason to think he is not ready yet think that Crowley was ready. Their backgrounds to this point are incredibly similar.

    I think Farrell seems him as a genuine option with a lot of upside and thinks the alternatives are frankly uninspiring. It is always a function of the greater scenario. We know that Ross Byrne simply does not have it at international level. If Ireland had to play an important game tomorrow frankly I think I'd be tempted to roll the dice with Prendergast over Ross.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭50HX


    Whatever happened to earning the right to get an international cap, as in you have to be ripping it up for your club to get capped, outperforming others in that position

    Once you do get capped & perform you earn the credit in the bank if you've a dip in form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    To respond to you as you keep quoting me

    No I didn't take issue and from recollection nobody made that claim. I just pointed out when someone talked about "top" 10 in Europe that Ntamack would probably be in that bracket and in recent games v Toulouse, Ross has been his equivalent or better

    I did claim Harry was 2nd choice and that was based on the 6 nations as I explained at the time when he was.

    As we can see from the post above you only have interest in twisting people posts and hence why I don't respond to the nonsense. Best of luck on your travels 😘



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Who in the Ireland team is not playing well?

    Who is "ripping it up" that hasn't been selected?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,083 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    it’s funny, the day started with a discussion about how Ireland will only change things up when there’s an injury or retirement, and it’s finishing with Farrell getting slated for calling up an unproven youngster instead of more established but pretty mediocre alternatives.

    Tough crowd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    and in recent games v Toulouse, Ross has been his equivalent or better

    That doesn’t make him a top 10.

    I did claim Harry was 2nd choice and that was based on the 6 nations as I explained at the time when he was.

    No he wasn’t. You’re literally the only person, on any medium I’ve seen claiming this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    This will be the final time I respond to your nonsense

    I never claimed he was top 10. That's bullsh*t

    Best of luck on your travels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I never said to call up Ross by the way, as I have said for a while Ireland don't really rate him. I just gave a comparison to the critical comments Ross gets for getting a team to a European final and performing ok in the final to others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭50HX


    I was referring to current players that calls were being made for to be included, Coombes based on the past few pages.

    Jgp is injured, Murray will prob start



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sorry I don't get this point, maybe it's me and I am sorry, what are you saying is wrong? or maybe right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭50HX


    Sorry I re read & made a hash if it

    Calls for Coombes to be included should only be based on him out performing his competitors for the jersey.

    Hodnett is another example,

    Murray & healy are Included for a v good reason



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    ive been in agreement overall with your argument re SP, but crowleys won a couple of player of the game awards recently……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    BOD is the only one of them to have consistently been picked for ireland though since their debut - ryan being in between right now (not in any way saying he isnt a fantastic player, he just currently is on the bench and doesnt look like being a starter anytime soon). Darcy barely played between 1999 and 2004, fitzgerald never reached the level he was at in 2009 (for various reasons)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    As you said, injury played a large role in the career trajectory of guys like Ryan and Fitzgerald, but they were still picked at a young age because their talent was obvious. I think Prendergast is in the same boat, and one could credibly argue that Leinster messed up in not selecting him this year over some of the Brynes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    injury was a part of it, but my point was that just picking someone early doesnt mean theyll have a long, consistent career

    even keith earls had long(ish) spells in and out of the team despite having a long career overall

    sexton made his debut at 24, ogara at 23, Humphreys was 24, theres no rush.

    i dont agree re: picking SP over the byrnes to be honest. not a leinster fan so i have no skin in the game but i think the narrative around RB borders on ridiculous at times - there are bigger overall problems in their gameplan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The point is, if you're going to make an accusation so broad as:

    Just a point, which I know we are not supposed to be critical of Crowley on here

    …maybe then don't get so defensive when some suggests Ross Byrne isn't a top tier 10.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Yes correct hopefully Izuchukwu or prendergast get a shot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    The ability to play for ireland against tier 1 opposition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,673 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You're totally correct in your point re: career success. I suppose my view would be that a player being young, shouldn't be a barrier to their selection if they're good enough.

    I think Leinster should've backed Harry this season. He was starting and playing well, prior to the playoffs, yet when Ross was fit they dumped him. It was a mistake imo, and I think Leinster would be in a much better place if they had trusted him as the starting 10. They'd seen what Ross can bring, and what he can't do. Harry has potential beyond him, and was finally in a place with his fitness where they could've seen what he could do, and they balked. Leo is far too conservative, and it's cost us.



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fair enough, maybe more accurate to say he's had a couple of bad games by his standards.



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