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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,240 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Nah, Lowe got at least two bites of the cherry



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd say the ireland coaches are generally 'loyal' and 'system' selectors rather than 'form' selectors. Which i mostly agree with.

    I'd also say Leinster coaches already rotate a ton, but yea maybe it would be cool to see new combos.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Limited squad places available is not the issue. Selecting ideally the same 23 every game if we can is. This is not even aprovincial fan im a munster fan and murray shouldnt be in the squad this season. We are and always have been a particularly conservative team when it comes to selection. The difference is now we have the depth to not do it where the 00s we maby didnt



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    That's something the coaching team should be commended for. They dropped Lowe and told him what he needed to do to get back in. He improved and managed to regain his place.

    That's shows there is plenty of opportunity to break into the side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,240 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Read up, once anyone starts to name a player to be tried instead of another the thread delves into inter-provincialism and takes a nose dive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,240 ✭✭✭✭phog


    OR it shows, they have their 1-23 and unless something else happens you're outside the bubble



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    And "who should we drop" nonsense.

    The current world champions sent two seperate squsds to argentina and nz just before world cup to help them select for the wc. We picked our team two years out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You really can’t see the similarity? It’s the exact argument people have been making with regards Ireland. It’s literally the exact same.

    Now, imagine someone was as dismissive to you and replied:

    The Leinster players Cullen has been picking are the best we have. If you don't like it, tough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,971 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Usual suspects waiting in the long grass to jump back in with same old tired whinges about provincial bias and players not getting picked. Kleyn is maybe, maybe the 6th best lock in the country. Ryan, Beirne, McCarthy, Ahern, Murray, Baird, Henderson, probably Moloney too, are all better than him. Coombes has been given innumerable chances in the training squad and been found lacking, as well being anonymous in games vs Leinster. Ulster lads have been out of form all season unfortunately, I'm big fan of Baloucoune and would really like to see him get more opportunities, but he hasn't deserved it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Agree re: Balacoune. Seriously wondering what happened there. I'd say Stockdale is also not on the radar for a wing position. Certainly, Hansen; Lowe, Nash,J.O.B and Larmour have been better than him. Even among this group there's no one that jumps out to me and I'd consider undroppaple. Hansen being the best option.

    No clue as to what other players would/could be considered. 2nd row for ne is Beirne/Ryan and McCarthy with a drop in talent to the next level.

    I hope the upcoming tour is used to bring in some new lads or maybe take a look at lads who've been in the training camps.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    What long grass. These are consistent gripes your not liking them dosent make them whinging

    As for the rest your embarrassing yourself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,240 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You're long enough reading Boards to know this isn't a new topic, picked out of the air because a team lost yesterday



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    With regards to balocoune he got stuck in a bad coaching set up look at the sharks team vs performances as an example many here would dismiss lads like mapimpi,koch and etzebeth as not good enough for ireland



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Not a comment to be taken seriously. Lists players "better" than kleyn. Includes multiple 6s for a tighthead lock comparison. Embarrassing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's not similar and the circumstances for provincial selection are different to Ireland selection.

    There are more games in a provincial season whereas Ireland games have a very narrow window. You can rest and experiment with players when necessary for the former. They may not be as good as the incumbents yet, but the relative lower stakes allows you the opportunity.

    Test matches dictate that you play your best side to win. That's what Farrell has consistently based his selection on. If you're the best available, you're in. Did it with Hansen and then Crowley. He has gotten this right throughout his tenure which is why we've had the most successful period in our history.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Do you mean to say if your the best and the owner of the Jersey gets hurt or retires you may be in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You're moving the goalposts here tho. I'll remind you of your statement.

    One thing I'd like to see over the next few weeks is greater variation in selection.

    Yet you're now talking about…

    …in a provincial season

    Even if we grant you this, what you're saying about "lower stakes" could be directly applied to the Autumn Internationals. It's massively contradictory whatever way you slice it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    But the next few weeks are a part of the provincial season so I've no idea what you're talking about now. Leinster have continually had the best players in Ireland and that has been rewarded with Ireland selection. But they cannot be selected week on week for rest and contractual reasons. Therefore rotation is a must.

    You can slice things however you want, but provincial and test levels are entirely different when it comes to selection. If you don't accept that, that's fine. But it's reality. The players are brought in through the provinces and Farrell selects based off that. If they're especially good, they come in after a relative small amount of appearances.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    So if provincials and test level are completely different then we have no idea if the players are not good enough until we try them

    Except kleyn whos won a world cup final of coarse

    Leinster have a core of players that are terrifying the front row for example is head and shoulders ahead of any other province. The likes of the byrnes, frawley, baird, larmor and so on are no better though the top 6 or so players being really special does not mean any player wearing blue is better



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's poor form to cherry pick quotes and not give the full context to it. So I'll make the full post here.

    [Quote]One thing I'd like to see over the next few weeks is greater variation in selection.

    We have been too wedded to having specific 'units' that we select for certain games. We have a lot of good players that I think could flourish when surrounded by better players. I'd like to see a backrow of Baird/Penny/Doris. Or a Deegan/VDF/Doris. Or even a JGP and Prendergast/H Byrne.

    A front row of Porter/Kelleher/Clarkson could do a lot of damage in the tight.[/Quote]

    The specific units in question that I didn't want to see were the Deegan, Penny, Conan trio and the Healy, Kelleher, Ala'alatoa front row. Also the selection of Luke McGrath to partner any other 10. I was calling for a stronger selection policy than we've been wont to make after a big game. This entirely takes into account the differing selection policies between province and country and the argument that provinces develop these players which Farrell then decides to include in his team which I have also expanded upon. It's not moving the goalposts in the slightest. It's expanding an argument being made.

    The players selected for Ireland are the best available and are chosen on merit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's not cherrying picking to suggest that this…

    We have been too wedded to having specific 'units' that we select for certain games. We have a lot of good players that I think could flourish when surrounded by better players. 

    … could apply directly to Ireland over the last while. Given the weekend that's in it, will leave it at that..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,977 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It entirely is cherry picking. I have repeatedly given the context for that post and provided the examples where Farrell has selected on merit, when he has dropped underperforming players, and how selection at provincial level and test level is not the same.

    Leaving it at that is fine because it's going nowhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,198 ✭✭✭TRC10


    One argument that's been made a lot is, guys from other provinces have gotten chances and not taken them. But the thing is, how many games did it take JGP to look remotely like a test level scrum half? How many error ridden performances was James Lowe afforded before he got his sh*t together? How many games were Ryan and Conan given to play their way back into form? How many times does Doris have to f*ck up in big games before someone else gets a shot at 8?

    Yet, guys like Coombes and Baloucoune are given one or two games (most players don't even get that) and if they don't absolutely shoot the lights out, they're permanently discarded and labelled "not good enough".



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,846 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Far away hills......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,198 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Worst case scenario I can see is, we fail with a deeper squad, more representative of the quality we have in Ireland. As opposed to failing with a Leinster dominated squad, which is what we do currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,971 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Embarrassing is missing the point that lads like Baird and Ahern, who're hybrid lock/ flankers are streets ahead of Kleyn at his very best.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You do realise the coachs are watching the players daily at training? Coombes for instance has been given multiple chance. Bala as well but has gone backwards since the EI tour

    Lowe started the 6 nations in 2021 and was dropped during that competition because of problems in defence, he returned in the AIs after resolving those issues as best he could.

    In terms of Doris, how many times have he "f*ck up" so far with Ireland? a knock on in a game and you want to drop him?



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Their better than ross byrne also but dont play the same position so its a silly comparison. Anyway world cup winner jean kleyns not good is your take good luck with that



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  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Perhaps the coaches judged incorrectly in training



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