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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I’m not.
    And we all hope Foley pushes ahead of McGrath

    IF he’s good enough.

    He’ll be 25. So if not next season you’d have to wonder if ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I am with you. Some uncharacteristic performances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'd go with Larmour. He's earned it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    My point is, over the years the 2nd's were reliable and in some cases pushed the 1st's onto higher levels. It's not this way this season. Even v Ospreys, we gave up a lot of line breaks that are uncharacteristic. I'm probably beating an annoying drum here but, the trip to S.A was woeful. Very, very poor. The league has improved, I agree and at the same time, Leinster have not. In fact, we are a lesser side now. I probably expect way too much! Perhaps my sights are set too high.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ulster played very well at the rds! They fronted up versus us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I assume that I'm included among the naysayers. At the end of the day it's just a forum with multiple opinions. I'm guilty of expecting too much. Mea Culpa! Onwards and upwards!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'd be hesitant to get Luke on v Toulouse. He's not been good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,942 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    JOB is a better player, simple as. Perhaps harsh on Larmour but getting the best players, in form, onto the pitch is what matters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Larmour is playing the best rugby of his career. His footwork is as good as ever, but he's a lot smarter in how he plays. He'll try and beat a defender if he's in a one on one, but otherwise he'll run into contact to generate a new phase of play. His finishing has also improved.

    I think I'd still start JOB ahead of him next Saturday. The latter is just a faster player and we'll need that if we're to stress the Toulouse defence. Their defence isn't that impressive and line breaks can be generated through speed and accuracy of play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Leinster's greatest strength this season lies in the forwards. We've an excellent pack and impactful replacements.

    We've had some great success with the 6-2 split this year, but we've also seen it's drawbacks in the Ireland/England game and even last night's game against Ulster when we lost two backs relatively early. Toulouse went 6/2 against us last season and it cost them when their.outaode centre went off after a few minutes. Dupont went to 10 and Ntamack to 12. Completely disrupted their game plan.

    If we want to go for the most impact I think we have to go 6/2 with Connors and Jenkins starting. VDF and Ryan can be excellent subs after 50 minutes. But I don't know if it's worth the risk.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Leinster decided it was meaningless when they sent over the kids on the tour.

    They didn't play well but it is absolute arrogance to send none of your first ~25 players and expect to get results in SA.

    A 14 man version of that Lions team bet a full strength Warriors first team by 23 points, leaving them coming away with zero points.

    It matters little how the second/third string are performing as a group from now on, just how they do when any are asked to step in with the firsts.

    There are no style points on how Leinster look vs last year, all that matters are trophies. SA under Rassie had plenty of ups and downs last season - we'll see if he can bring it together again with Leinster over the next few weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,635 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I presume they're missing Lancaster. There's bound to be a lull when losing such a great coach, even when transitioning to another great coach.

    They did the same last year. The coaching team left SA and left Sean O Brien to manage. But you could expect the seconds to win games comfortably in the previous years.

    I think leinster has probably given more game time to academy players than most teams. I just don't think they have as many really exciting prospects as previous years. The Ireland U20s hasn't been as stacked with leinster players as the senior side and the stars haven't usually been leinster players (Prendergast aside). Lots of decent academy players, but not many you think will be stars.

    The Byrne brothers are similar. Decent, and too good to let them go, but not good enough for the top end of Europe. Ross is good, but nobody is excited to see what he does in the final next weekend. 10 has gone from a major strength for leinster, to a bit of a weakness.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think its lancaster too. But also, the talent that graduated from the academy in the last 3 years in the academy isn't at the same level as the 4 years before. That's not a knock. If that level was sustained it would be pretty unbelievable.





  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Did they not get 5 points from the two games there last year with the C team?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,635 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yes. They beat the Lions with a bonus point and list 60-7 to the Bulls.

    Is there any chance the second string guys know they'll never get into the first team on merit, so there's less motivation? Deegan knows he won't get ahead of Doris. Penny won't get ahead of VDF and Connors, no matter how well he plays.

    There's a bit more genuine competition in the backs with Osborne and Jimmy and Tommy o Brien competing for centre and wing spots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah, we got five points from one match in SA last year, and got absolutely massacred in the second, and those came just after we'd drawn at home with another SA team.

    A couple of weeks later, a reasonably strong Leinster team failed to close out a winning position against a rival province, just like we did at the weekend.

    The evidence that we were much better last season is patchy at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Based on the teams I think Leinster expected to get something from the Lions game. I am basing this on the team selected and also having all the coach's available.

    This time Leo stayed and the rest of the coaching team flew home, last year for the last game it was run by Seanie. So a little bit more interest this year but still I doubt they expected a win, maybe a losing bonus was possible.

    That just my opinion, because they got nothing from the Lions game they are on the back foot, the Lions beating Glasgow kind of solved that but Leinster lost in Ulster which they expected to win so back to difficult to get top spot in league



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭LostArt


    I've ended up with 2 spare final tickets, if anyone wants them for cost price drop me a PM



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, we got five points from one match in SA last year, and got absolutely massacred in the second

    Which is better than being massacred in two…

    The evidence is not patchy. 5 reg season losses vs 1 is quite a stark difference and the NH performance in the SF was comfortably worse than any of our knockout wins last year. As well as the results being worse, I think they team just looks worse on the eyesight test. Some of this was likely unavoidable given the turnover in the coaching staff, but it's still clearly happening!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fwiw, I think this is the respective URC comparison for the same stage last season:

    P

    W

    D

    L

    PF

    PA

    PD

    TF

    TA

    TBP

    LBP

    Pts

    2022/23

    17

    16

    1

    0

    573

    301

    272

    83

    41

    13

    0

    79

    2023/24

    17

    12

    0

    5

    521

    343

    178

    76

    42

    10

    2

    60



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    It's not even debatable we are at a lower ebb than last year. The Irish contingent alone were at a higher physical peak than they are currently.

    The attack is just not as fluent as it was last year either. The way we are rucking has changed. It was always going to take time to bed this in but it's been better than I expected.

    Not sure how we will go next week. I would back our pack against anyone though and I just hope we can keep a hold of Dupont.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leinster were always going to be impacted in a WC year, as we have been told repeatedly, the knocks outs will definite Leinster's season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    In every one of those 5 losses Leinster rested a significant number of their starters. Why do posters keep pointing to matches when all the front liners weren't out there?

    Fine if you're trying to make an argument for Leinster's back-ups not being as strong as a group as last year, but that has little to do with the knock-out rugby to come.

    The first half of the SF this year Leinster were good, it was the second half where they appeared to turn off. They let a very good side that kept battling back into the match. The way people talk about it you'd swear they were dire for the whole game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Injury update is out and Keenan, Ryan and Connors are all good to go for the final.

    Ringrose, TOB and Ngatai will be assessed but I'd say it's safe to say that Ringrose probably won't make it with no gametime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Exactly! Nail on the ceann! The depth is not as good. 5 losses is unheard of for Leinster. I'd also point to the fact that La Rochelle are fairly shyte.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think the back-ups are not as strong as last year, I think the coaching and preparation of them is not as good. I think the performances at home to Sale and Leicester were also decent but not great, so it's not like this is just something impacting the second string.

    Also, turning off in the second half of a SF is not something that we should or have been doing. It is a worrying development.

    I simply find the direction the team is going in worrying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    I do agree that the squad depth is likely not where it was and there are a number of contributing factors - that has indeed contributed to a tricker league this year and perhaps a less robust second line.

    That said, when it comes down to tournaments and leagues that have knock-outs at the end of the year, you can really only judge a team's performance based on how they fare in the knockouts. If Leinster go on to win the URC this year, nobody would say that we're not as good as a URC year when we lost 1 game in the regular season but got knocked out in the semi-final because we lost more games that year. The league is a marathon not a sprint. But its how we perform in the knockouts that will determine whether this year is a success or failure (for me). Does anyone think Munster fans care that much that they lost 7 URC games in 2022/23…I doubt it.

    For reference, Toulouse have lost 8 of their 24 games in the Top 14 this year and nobody would claim they're having a bad year. And if they win the Top 14 and Champions Cup, nobody will care that much about the losses.

    Context is everything.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    But its how we perform in the knockouts that will determine whether this year is a success or failure 

    This is obviously true. But they haven't happened yet so we have no basis for discussion there, only hypotheticals and I'm concerned based on what we've seen so far this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I'm not too concerned. There was always going to be a difficult transition period following Lancaster's departure.

    It also wasn't helped that Leinster had a very turbulent pre-season period. We were missing over 20 players through injury and World Cup duties. We were also missing two senior coaches due to their own international commitments. Goodman was coaching Samoa until September and Nienaber didn't arrive until November.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Absolutely, and I completely agree.

    Last year, I'd have been reasonably confident that if we had to dip into the second line of our depth chart, we'd largely be fine but the last few months have shown that the team will really need to step up in order to carry those second line players in key positions who are not performing. Notably the JGP-Ross pairing is probably our most fragile area on the pitch.

    I've full faith in the first line, mind. Little to no concerns about them.



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