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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭flutered


    you forgot to add on the 2nd biden arms job, the 6billion eu add on, then the chezc supply, it all adds up, forgot to mention the eu supply of shells



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,627 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    A million shells is over a years supply of shells to Ukraine given the current rate of supply.

    However, Ukraine will not receive 1 million shells in June, nor were they promised it. Reports put it at 180k. I wouldn't be surprised if it is lower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭threeball


    The lack of supply of munitions is no excuse not to have mined the shìt out of the northern border and have time to document the position of every mine for future reference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet combined it is not enough.

    The scale of military hardware that will be needed to push Russia back is going to be more than all given to date and then some more on top.

    Fight now on the cheap or later on the dear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It is a year's worth now but that is because that is all they are getting.

    Ukrainian Commanders speak of getting 2 shells a day and often no delivery some days. A million a month would be closer to need for an offensive to drive Russia out.

    You dont have to be a soldier to know that's a problem, never mind Zelensky and the Ukrainian military leadership constantly pointing out they are profoundly starved of shells.

    Russia during one offensive was firing 60k a day, that's near 2 million a month. That's taking it serious, if they get within range of Kharkiv they can pound it indefinitely.

    The global news story should be of European States launching a massive and aggressive rearmament strategy. It is far from that and every bad actor from Iran over to China see that and will take chances.

    It will cost much more in the long term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I say a lot of it was they probably thought America would not let them down with supplies and there was always going to be a constant supply of everything and then boom the Republican dumb assess in Congress delayed it all for such a long time that it's rightly screwed Ukraine over. I say Ukraine might of thought we just need offensive weapons and we can kick Russia out provide us with these. It just goes to show the warnings that we're given to Congress and Mike Johnson that made him change his tune and to put the 60 billion bill to Congress and help pass it just showed how much trouble Ukraine actually were in and if they didn't get this aid. I just hope it's not to late for Ukraine and that the US didn't leave it too long passing this bill through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The bill is a bit of a circus, it was easily circumventable by Biden by executive order under excess arms, the problem is that the will to win is not in the West.

    Hold Russia, wear out Russia but don't beat it to collapse is the mantra and no one wants a collapsed Russia, that's this nightmare on steroids but Russia holding ground is also a long term problem as it shows might is right and the West are no longer interested in keeping peace or order globally.

    The last few years have been a Green light to a lot of violent states and groups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Let's be honest, Russia hasn't been firing 60k shells a day since the start of the war. What are they at these days, 10k a day?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    No but they fired that many per day because that is what being on the offensive requires and if, the big if, people want Ukraine to take back the lost territory that is what they must be doing at times and probably for months at a time.

    They say about 10k shells fired a day by Russia with Iran and others supplying as well.

    Russia is currently producing shells at 3 times the rate of the EU and US combined. A country where a flush toilet is fancy Moscow or St Petersburg stuff.

    Sh1thouse Russia is going all out to carve out and keep a stretch of Ukraine.

    If there was even a slight will to win in the West the situation would not be where it is now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    They fired that many for 2 reasons, they had millions stockpiled and it's their doctrine (mass shelling)

    You seem to have the figures handy (they are constantly changing) so whats the current Russian and EU/UK/Ukraine/USA/Norway output?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The figures I gave were from last month.

    They won't have changed that much and they won't change from the West for a long time, the will is lacking, the ramp up should have started on day one.

    There is a cold war on now and Ukraine is a hot site in it.

    Countries like Iran, Korea Russia and in a cagey way China are all in, the economic behemoth of Western democracies are not all in.

    Western Europe needs to look at 2% NATO defense spending targets as a relic of a peaceful past and not relevant to today's world and need to spend for a much more violent world where we are the active target.

    If not we'll all pay.

    Europeans need to be preparing for multi front wars, at the least having the resources to arm allies involved in serious and prolonged conflict and up to fighting and that is where things are heading. Our opponents are willing.

    The mad thing is that this will ensure Ukrainian victory, a more peaceful world etc.

    All of Europe should have moved at least a bit towards preparing for upcoming war when Russia invaded, world events since then should have moved it further towards that.

    It will not be a popular suggestion. Ukraine will be given good wishes, solidarity and just enough to hold a line but that's it. It is so obviously going to bite Europe in the ass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    You didn't actually give any figures, just Russia was producing 3x more shells than the EU and USA combined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Sorry though I had that linked.

    For the next few years the West is effectively out of shells just to give Ukraine a derisory amount.

    It's incredible and shameful that it could be let happen.

    Driving armaments spending and productivity should be major govt priorities across Europe, prepare for war.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/03/10/politics/russia-artillery-shell-production-us-europe-ukraine/index.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    We've gone from:

    Russia during one offensive was firing 60k a day, that's near 2 million a month. That's taking it serious, if they get within range of Kharkiv they can pound it indefinitely.

    That's was 23 million a year to:

    Russia is producing about 250,000 artillery munitions per month, or about 3 million a year,

    Is Russia taking it less serious now? That's nearly an 8 fold reduction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What you fire doesn't always relate to production, Old stock, bought in stock, kinda obvious.

    Russian production is not impressive or at levels to win a decisive victory, it is what a country with an economy only the size of Belgium and Netherlands combined can do.

    It's just looking good compared to the lethargy of the West, it shouldn't be so.

    This summer is going to be about Russian gains in Ukraine, how significant remains to be seen but the potential for a big disruption is there.

    That's down to 2 years of lackluster.

    Ukraine was saved by Russians poor military and political leadership.

    Russia looks like being saved by poor political leadership in the West.

    European States need to view themselves as part of the fight, and that any scale of loss for Ukraine is multiple for Europe.

    What is the dread of giving Ukraine what it needs and on top of that having a West that can defend itself across multiple theaters.

    Germany recently forecasting a 10bn defense spending shortfall in 2028.

    France spending less than half what it did in the 80s, on and on. It's disturbing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    His numbers may be contestable, his overall take on the situation isn't far wrong. The current malaise towards military spending in the West is disturbing. Not to mention some of the obvious cracks in joined up thinking among Western partners.

    America is still very much the big guy in the room, but it's been looking at the door of late, or certain factions have been. If America does become more isolationist Europe is in trouble. Win for Putin.

    In France Le Pen's party is set to make big gains in the next election with Le Pen herself likely becoming president. Her and her party have dodgy connections with Moscow and she has gone on record admiring Putin, repeating Moscow spin that Ukraine's move away from Russia was a Western/US/CIA coup and that she'll reduce France's role in NATO and is against energy sanctions on Russia. Win for Putin.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,699 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    The next presidential elections in France are 3 years away. That's a long time in politics and an even longer time in a war economy. With any luck, this mess will be well over by then.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The Ukraine mess whichever way it goes, might be over to some degree, but imho this Cold War 2 most certainly won't be. It benefits too many people, not least Putin.

    Russia's economy peaked around 2015, birth rates have fallen off a cliff(even with monetary incentives)and the brain drain westward was ongoing. While this war, cold and hot will make his demographics worse, the war economy will look better for a time and by disconnecting with western university standards that'll help his brain drain. Plus he's bolstered his people against privations by being able to point to an External Enemy(s) which they can all fight together and makes himself look like a saviour.

    So I can see us dealing with this new world shift for quite a long time. Decades imho.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    CNBC euro report that the new Russia attack from the North is down to Ukraine not having long range weapons to target Russia logistics during the last 6 months. Big mistake from president Joe to hold off on those weapons. At lest UK and France saw this problem over the last few months and did what they could.

    Dan.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭josip


    It was Mike Johnson and the other Republican loons' fault, not Biden's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    It’s both their faults

    The prohibition on using weapons (that are late to arrive) into Russia is stupid, that means fortifications have to be build far from border

    Imagine if during WW2 all the lend lease aid that’s swung the war had a clause that it couldn’t be used outside Russian borders once Nazis are driven out (ignoring for a second that such a condition would not have been enforceable)

    Post edited by zerosquared on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Please elaborate. Ukraine has a manpower problem. I flagged it as an obvious problem months ago, some people did not like the conclusions. Now we see it arising as a more pressing problem. What's changed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    In Luhansk we see the benefit of long range weapons. Been a while since I've seen a big Russia ammo depot go up like this. If you want to cause the Russians an artillery shortage at the front this is how.

    Meanwhile the endless waves continue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,996 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Sky news

    Kharkiv commander sacked

    Ukraine has sacked the commander responsible for Kharkiv, military command has said.

    Nazar Voloshyn told RBC-Ukraine media a decision was made on Saturday to appoint Brigadier General Mykhailo Drapatyi to the position.

    The day before, Russia launched an incursion across Ukraine's northeastern border into the Kharkiv region.

    One soldier blamed poor fortifications at the border, telling Sky News the Russian army walked "freely" across it.

    Fighting continues in villages nearby, with the region's governor warning earlier this morning that it could spread to new areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,301 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't think you build defenses right at the border because you're placing those defences at a range where the enemy can kind of sit there and lob ordinance at those lines and those constructing them. The idea would more be that you build them a few miles back where you can take advantage of a logistically-stretched enemy when they decide to advance.

    We saw this last Summer when Ukraine launched an offensive and were able to move forward in small pockets early on, but we were reliably informed that Ukraine had yet to reach Russia's main defensive line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Not only can the Russians sit there lobbing artillery at those constructing defensive lines but the Ukrainians would not be permitted to fire back into Russia

    as per ISW comments linked higher up

    A better question is how do Russians intend to capture Kharkiv a city with 1.5 million people with only a fraction of troops they used in much much smaller Bakhmut this time last year, and what will the world do about yet another Ukrainian city being reduced to rubble



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭zv2


    1740 Russians destroyed in the last 24 hours. This is a daily record-

    It looks like history is starting up again.



This discussion has been closed.
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