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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sure, I get that. And frankly a player of Deegan's quality willing to just settle for non-knockout URC level action isn't going to help them much.

    Unless it's peanuts, I don't think Leinster should have offered him a contract though. They should have just used the promotion of Culhane to a senior deal to phase him out. Waste of money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ross was great v LaR. But really his athletic ability is limited. He's a very good player but not the player who's going to run in tries from anywhere. To be fair, Harry has looked very good this season, imo. He's certainly athletic enough and I reckon if he grabs that intercept, he gets a lot closer to the try line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Ross was always ideal as the back up fly half, He in so solid across the board but I really struggle to pick one thing he does at the highest level needed. I would have said his place kicking was a strength of his in the past but it seems to have dropped off quite a bit the past 12 months. I was at the game at the weekend and his head was completely gone when he missed that kick in front of the post from 30 metres out. It seems to be a confidence issue for Ross, he should have been able to run in that intercept but straight away was looking for help. Your fly half has to have irrational and supreme confidence that they are going to make every kick and every time the ball leaves their boot, something good is gonna happen and if it doesn't, try, try and try again.

    Prendergast has these traits in abundance as well as a killer instinct to finish teams off. Harry does have upside but injuries might cause him to miss out on getting a consistent shot at the 10 shirt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Replacement scrum half is a now a problem position for Leinster. Luke McGrath has barely played in Europe this season and he wasn't trusted to help see the game home against Northampton at the weekend either. If you go back to last season's Champions Cup final he came off the bench in the 78th minute. JGP should have been taken off sooner as he was shattered but he was kept on.

    We need Foley or even Gunne to make a push for inclusion in European squads next season.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,832 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yeah McGrath was a wasted jersey last Saturday.

    Foley is the nearest to him currently imo and should be overtaking him by the end of next season



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ah here, there is no way on earth he was ever going to be running in that intercept. Better to look for help then get isolated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Deegan staying is good for Leinster. Clearly he's in a comfort zone being a URC guy and he's happy for it, but it's a bit of a waste.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jonok28


    He had a good head start ahead of him, My seat in Croke Park was in line with the try line he was running towards the posts, he would have at bare minimum gotten himself to near the 5 metre line if he just kept running. I don't blame him for looking for help at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    He's happy.

    He might have the self confidence to think he'll dethrone one of the current incumbents in blue or green.

    He might be content with being a professional player with his favoured team for as long as possible.

    Either way a Leinster contract appears to be what he wants and what he has got! Fair play to him, there are hundreds that fail to get that far.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This is all perfectly fair, but I just don't know why Leinster are spending the money on him. It is just clogging up the path for potentially better players behind him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I think you are onto something there. Leinster tried for Tom O'Toole, Finley Bealham and supposedly Jack Aungier before they all signed new deals. They clearly wanted to keep a NIQ available for a different position. Luke just isn't the same player he once was anymore. A fantastic servant to Leinster but his time of playing quality rugby seem to be coming to an end.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    That self confidence would be highly misplaced; Cullen is going nowhere and many many attack coaches (Lancaster, Goodman, Nienbar, etc) have failed to recognise him as being a top 23 player.

    Obviously can't hold anything against him, but you can't help but think things could be so much bigger for him. IIRC he and Doris were both called up to the same 6N squad for the first time and you'll find comments from me saying back then that I rated Deegan higher than Doris (shows what I know :P lol).

    Obvious caveat as well is that I'd much prefer he stays in the country than go abroad (and he may well be the same), so if that's with Leinster then so be it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,805 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I must say I don't understand Deegan remaining at all. Third choice No.8?

    He's amazing, but he's wasted not playing.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You'll be amazed how quickly I can pivot from "10s have to be able to tackle" when it suits me 😉

    But in all seriousness yeah, he's got quite a lanky frame though so I think another off season of putting on some more muscle will help. He needs to stop flapping his arms at people so much though.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He was getting nowhere near the 5m line. He might have gotten an extra couple metres into the 22 but it made sense for him to look for support. That was not a confidence issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,371 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    We maybe crap, but we till managed to beat Leinster the last time we played



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,129 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Indeed and even that didn’t turn Deegans head!

    My point stands though Ulster is a very hard sell to players, if they were showing signs of going somewhere it might be easier, whatever is happening with Kitschoff hasn’t helped. Things just don’t seem right up there and it’s more than just the coaches.



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    The lack of certainty around the team right now has to be hindering recruitment.

    The single most important voice in the building in terms of persuading a player to move there is the coach who is going to be picking the team and setting the gameplan for how you intend to play. Right now for Ulster that's not settled, so I completely understand why players would be reticent around moving there without that certainty.



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ulster can't offer more than leinster. Waiting for an injury at leinster is probably a better international rugby plan than starting for ulster. Those are the two reasons.

    This isn't really a uniquely Ulster thing either. I'm struggling to remember the last player leinster actually lost to another province, one they cared about keeping. It should happen more often. Usually talented squads shed players who want bigger roles.



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    Those aren't the only two factors though.

    He has to be convinced he's genuinely putting himself into a better situation; to that he has to be satisfied that he's going to be in an environment where he's going to improve as a player and that will be better than the one he's currently in.

    He can't be confident of that at the moment - Ulster have looked unstable and erratic for a few years now really all in, and to have elite players like Kitshoff bounce out of there so quickly doesn't reflect well on the team culture or environment.

    He can't be confident around his playing development because he doesn't even know who the coach is who'll be picking the team.

    Even something as simple as the lack of a recognised 10 in the squad for next season is going to impact these sort of decisions. If we're all asking that question, you can be pretty sure the players are too.

    There aren't a multitude of guys who've made that switch who it has worked out well for either.

    There isn't a huge amount either to support a belief that he'll play a lot more big games there either - since that requires Ulster qualifying for those big European knock outs.

    So there are plenty of factors beyond just the one you're mentioning why he made the decision he made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I say this with the fullest respect to Ulster as a rugby team. With no Chief Executive, no director of rugby and no long term head coach in place, why would Deegan sign on to play for Ulster next season with that much uncertainty looming for Ulster.

    Ulster have a solid team of players, they just need to address the CEO, DoR and Head coach positions with good people and a bit of investment and they will be back to their best.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I straight up question Leinster even offering him a contract. It doesn't strike me as a remotely good use of resources.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Paddy McCarthy onto senior deal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Big show of faith in him, himself and Boyle will have a right tussle.

    Presumably Usanov will come in on an Academy deal?

    And presumably the two of them moving onto senior deals = no NIQ prop?



  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    That's not the case though. Guys like Max Deegan (and Ruddock, Molony etc) have been utterly invaluable to Leinster in recent years - the level of rotation for the international guys impacts Leinster significantly, and Deegan has played a huge role in getting those crucial wins earlier in the season that has facilitated rotating heavily ahead of the European knockouts.

    I know the hope is Culhane keeps pushing through and challenging Deegan for those minutes, and hopefully that will happen, but having quality depth players like Deegan has been crucially important to Leinster for years.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd say generally the most high profile switches have worked out pretty well with some duds as you'd expect. Its just that when someone leaves leinster, its assumed that if they stayed they would have had the perfect career.

    Or to put it another way, if deegan had left three years ago and had a similar career, it would be assumed that he would have excelled at leinster in that time frame.

    The fact is that the typical 'push/pull factors' that usually lead guys from marginal roles at big teams to bigger roles at smaller teams don't really exist in irish rugby any more.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Lia Sweet Racist


    This must mean Ed Byrne is on the way out as widely speculated.

    Right now for next season Leinster have Porter, Milne, Boyle and McCarthy contracted at LHP, with no certainty yet around Cian Healy or Ed Byrne's future.



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who are the leinster players going to munster and connacht? Players leinster wanted to keep, leaving for a bigger role?



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