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Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    But so we're clear, this is the IRFU's call. This is not further Ulster mismanagement if so. This is directly an IRFU situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    'IRFU take over Ulster Rugby'.

    You can see the reaction among the unionist populace if that headline appears!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    The unionist population is very comfortable with the IRFU having oversight and ultimate control of Ulster Rugby. As it has always been. Rugby in N.I. may be mainly, but not exclusively, supported by those whose roots may be in the Unionist populace. However, rugby on the island is not an amalgamation of the 'Republic of Ireland Rugby Team' and the 'Northern Ireland Rugby Team,' neither of which exist. There would never be a need for the headline, "IRFU take over Ulster Rugby," as they already own it including the stadium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Sean Reffell as well if he can stay fit for 20 minutes. I think Reuben Crothers may have a big season ahead of him as well and James McNabney is one to watch. Our homegrown back row stocks look pretty good moving forward. Adding Deegan won't hurt, but I almost feel like he'd have been a better signing a year or two ago. But he's still young enough and hopefully hungry enough to have Ireland ambitions so it's a good move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I see Steenson is leaving his coaching post at Exeter to come "back home" to pursue new opportunities. Might be nothing...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Yeah my fear is that Deegan has left it too late to make the move. Not that he is too old, more that he would be joining (assuming he is) with Ulster at a low point and if he was reluctant to make the switch (which presumably he was given he didn't do it easier), it could be a difficult transition going from a settled and mostly winning Leinster environment to an Ulster who are rebuilding.

    Ulster also have a few good young backrowers who should play a big role in the rebuild. The big question mark remains at 10, not sure you can rebuild without one of the essential tools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,420 ✭✭✭✭Clegg




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Too late, I've already torn up my poster.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,718 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Waste of a career but it seems like he doesn't have the mentality that Ulster really need right now so perhaps better for all concerned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Don't want him blocking McNabney.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Out of interest is his mentality not what Ulster needed as he didn't sign or do just not rate him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    What mentality is that? Maybe he just doesn’t want to move to a current basket case, without a confirmed head coach, not guaranteed Champions Cup rugby and pretty unlikely win just about anything for the foreseeable future.

    The money is probably the same on offer, his family and friend close by, working with some of the best players and coaches in the world. Doubt his mentality is the thing to question in all of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Fair enough, hope he enjoys his 8 URC games a season. To be fair I could never play for another province, maybe that's how he feels, and he maybe believes he is too young to go to the Prem or Top 14 and still has faith he can make Ireland.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,718 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No I rate him. He's not a world beater but he's good. He's not going to be a transformational signing for a team like us, but he'd certainly have a big role in the first choice 23.

    But Ulster have enough mentality weak players. One of the biggest things we could take from Leinster is the culture and mindset.

    Deegan is happy to have a bit part role at Leinster despite the fact he has the potential for so much more. Even if he didn't sign for Ulster and went somewhere else, the fact he's happy to maintain his current status is Leinster has all the hallmarks of a guy who is happy enough to just coast and phone it in at Leinster than challenge himself at a different club. In stark contrast to the likes of Moloney.

    Fair enough, it's his call, but this is not what Ulster need.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,718 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Why would Deegan care about the Champions Cup? That's something he watches on TV.

    Similarly, when it comes to winning things he's a player who watches his team lift trophies from the comfort of his sofa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Alternatively, moving could be looked at as giving up on trying to get past Conan, Baird and Doris instead of staying and striving to overtake them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He is not going to get past them (two of whom are younger than him). He has tried and failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Ok fair enough. But there's also two ways to look at it. You see a guy who's happy to 'coast and phone it in', I'd see someone who wants to stay at the club he loves and fight for that starting jersey. Someone who's willing to play the long game to try and achieve this, when yeah he could probably be playing week in week out else where. That to me isn't someone with a weak mentality. He's a mountain to climb and he's probably very aware of that. That takes character.

    There's been a few others at Leinster over the years who decided not to stick around and fight for the jersey and tbh they haven't always lit it up at other clubs, Ulster included



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Deegan is 27 though, not 37 I would argue there's still time. Injuries open doors in this sport every week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    About the same as Ulster players next season so. In that case why not watch from the comfort of your sofa around your mates instead of in Belfast on your own.



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure if it needs to be 'fixed' or what but its become pretty clear guys are very rarely going to leave leinster, especially as they can't make more money.

    The players themselves at least seem pretty convinced that career prospects are better internationally at leinster even outside the best 23 than starting elsewhere.

    You can give Deegan crap about 'lack of ambition' but at the end of the day leinster is the spotlight when it comes to ireland selection.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Deegan plays roughly the same number of URC games as Prendergast, Trimoney or Coombes. At Ulster he'd get a couple of extra Challenge Cup matches and maybe one or two group games in the Champions Cup. That in itself is not a huge incentive to move, I'd imagine. Unless he believes he'd make enough of a difference to the side to have them challenging in the Europe and the URC play-offs, which is, I suppose, the attitude you want from a player signing with your club.

    I'm not sure he'd get a big enough offer from the Top 14 or Premiership to make the hassle of moving worth it. There's players of his calibre accepting ProD2 deals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭RuPi


    Having 40% of that salary being tax free will also play a role in some of these decisions from players as to whether they move to Ulster.

    Its disappointing but if it creates more opportunities for McNabney and McLaughlin then it may not be the worst move.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Does the IRFU rule about provinces not out-bidding each other take gross or net pay into account? And do they pay the players directly in Euros?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    one or two group games? If he doesn't think he could break into the Ulster 23 fair enough, but it all screams of rather middling ambition. So again, probably not what Ulster need anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    3 or 4 then, depending on how Ulster rotate their back row, which they have a real propensity to do. Not necessarily big games against better teams than the URC either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't think Deegan is what Ulster need now so not too bother. If offering money to a guy who has international caps over the past few years, it would be better going towards a LHP or 10.

    On his mentality, if he's getting a good wage, picking up a few medals, setting himself up for life after rugby and not getting major damage to his body, maybe he's got the right idea.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,718 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ed Byrne off to Cardiff.

    I am going to assume the rumours we were in for him are true, and I hope the blazers at Ravenhill are absolutely mortified by this one.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,275 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    If Ulster are being outbid by Welsh teams who can't compete with the ProD2 for their own props...



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