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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The investec match v La Rochelle that was moved to Dublin!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I'll say it again, all provinces have made a final under Nucifora & 3 have won trophies.

    Is there another rugby nation in the world that can show that level of balanced success across their teams?

    You feel like it isn't balanced only because you're refusing to accept reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I obviously have misunderstood the word disingenuous because every time you’re challenged on something you’ve said, you simply deny having said it, but I’m the “disingenuous “ one? Every day is a school day, I guess.

    It comes down to this. The issues at Ulster are so deep rooted and long standing that diverting money towards them at this point is absolute madness. If you tell me you don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m afraid I’ll have to call you disingenuous, if indeed I’m using that word correctly.

    Munster seem to have turned the corner in terms of player development so fingers crossed it continues.

    BTW your claim that Nucifora would meet his basic Kpis and then not give a shyte about anything after that is pure nonsense. It’s absolutely crazy and grossly unfair to the guy.

    I’m just sorry that people can’t enjoy the best Ireland team possibly ever. Seems an incredibly self destructive way to look at things.

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Ryan was way down the depth chart for a good chunk of his career.

    I pulled out stats a few months ago that showed Deegan had more game time at a similar age than Ryan did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    As an aside, I am not ecstatic over the Barrett signing. Nor the Snyman. I'd prefer going with what we have. Probably not a popular opinion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Leinster have won nothing recently. Despite the advantages. I doubt that they will beat Toulouse, if both make the final. This is due to Ryan and Ringrose being out. Plus Ntamack is back along with the world's best player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Do you think the other three provinces are improving or declining? Leaving aside barbs about mismanagement (and which I certainly wouldn't disagree with), if three of the provinces are going backwards, do you think the IRFU should act? Preemptively, even?

    If three of four provinces are moving further away from success, do you think the union should just castigate them for incompetence (again, not disagreeing that it was). Or do you think it should actually do something? And if so, if the imperative thing is not to inconvenience Leinster, and the budgets are a zero-sum game, what should it do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Can Ulster fans PayPal you some money to buy some quick turnaround NIQs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    4 is incredibly marginal.

    The greater time is lost for central contracted players due to being in camps and recovery - which haven't changed.

    The primary goal of central contracts is to keep the top Irish players in Ireland so any changes in URC games doesn't register against that.

    Feel the main goal of central contracts has been completely lost in the discussion by those who want huge change.

    Real baby out with the bathwater vibes. Would happily hurt Irish rugby if it dragged Leinster off their perch.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    15 months ago Ulster were flying high on top of the table, what has gone wrong for them and why is it leinsters fault? Why have most of their promising players regressed?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    I really think Leinster should be poaching Scott Wilson next season, he’s exactly what we need—a good, young tighthead prospect. I think Leinster would be a great environment for his development, he would definitely prosper here, and to add to it he would have Furlong as his mentor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    @Foxtrol @Bogwoppit

    The two of you have repeatedly mentioned how Munster squandered their success by not spending money on grassroots/development/schools etc compared to Leinster who supposedly have.

    Can you please point out what investment has actually gone into that from Leinster Rugby compared to the schools own investment or outside monies. I sort of indicated towards this in the quoted message above. What did Leinster ACTUALLY supposedly invest in?

    And where did Munster exactly supposedly not invest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    When O'Connor was shown the door and Leo got the job, Leinster were struggling. Within a year, he got minutes into Molony, Ringrose and Byrne. That started the ball rolling.

    Fantastic academy structures, talent scouting and the playing of academy players has really helped! McErlean at 20 years old has more appearances that Postlethwaite has for Ulster at the same age. Shane Jennings at 23 yrs is finally getting a look in Connacht. Andrew Osborne has played for Leinster. O'Tighearnaigh as a sub academy player, also played for Leinster. Why is that? Has Rory Telfer seen a minute at Ulster? The expectation at Leinster must be very much higher than it is elsewhere.

    When Leinster were plucking lads from 'Tarf, McGrath and Dundon from the AIL, the advantages were not so problematic.

    The work gone into Leinster has been amazing. Fair play to them.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well first of all, i'd put some level of priority on keeping deegan as i don't love the depth coming up beyond culhane and i wonder where he is at as well.

    Anyway; which year specifically are you talkijg about for ryan? Let's compare squads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm also not a fan of Bleyandaal arriving. Would prefer Carolan or Payne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    We had a great coaching set-up that broke up, leaving us, if you will, in our Matt O'Connor years. The minute we lost Peel and Payne our extremely promising backs stalled, and Dan Soper's shift from skills coach to attack coach saw a drop in a skill level that, under his watch, had been formidable.

    Then, Johnny Petrie, (who just wandered into Ulster and was given a job and absolutely wasn't given his CEO position by the IRFU) made bad decision after bad decision and was pish.

    It's not Leinster's fault. No-one thinks it is. That's what's commonly termed a "straw man".

    Sorry - in response to AdamD.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Payne is a defence coach and not attack is he not?

    I expect Nienaber might of had some input on Bleyandaal



  • Administrators Posts: 56,218 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Payne was defence coach at Ulster, but he's backs / attack coach at Scarlets.

    He left Ulster because he didn't get the attack coach gig when it became available.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,218 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You really aren't paying any attention at all. I am not excluding them. The fact that Leinster keep making knockout games and therefore bringing in more money reinforces my point, and why on earth would I exclude something that reinforces my point?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,833 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Screenshot_2024-04-17-21-11-59-851_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg

    Can you not at any stage admit that leinster have the best team because they have developed the best team??

    Everything you say is dripping in resentment and jealousy and you can't at any stage see the wood for the trees.

    Leinster developed Dan sheahan. The fact he's on a central contract now is due to the work leinster have put into the guy and Leinster 100% deserve to be at a benefit from this. Leinster absolutely have not bought success, which your post seems to try to claim. Let's not forget Leinster give most to IRFU as well, you only see one side of the ledger due to your bias.

    You want to Ulster to get to a footing equal to Leinster? Well go sort your own house out first and show that you can actual properly invest and grow…Werner Kok FFS.....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Munster were the last province to win a trophy FFS.

    People pointing to how long since Leinster won a trophy and were being described as 'underachieving' and 'chokers'.

    Everything was rosy in the garden a few weeks ago with Munster fanbase, with players coming through who were potential superstars and others who have been unfairly snubbed by AF

    Leinster convincingly beat LAR and sign a guy for 6 months and suddenly no province will never be able to compete again.

    It is amazing how Leinster have managed to mentally destroy the online fanbases of multiple provinces in a 3 day window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think his remit expanded to attack.

    Bernard Jackman spoke about Bleyendaal on last Mondays Rugby Weekly podcast. His appointment had yet to be confirmed but he spoke about his surprise at the rumour. Said that Leinster had approached Payne to take up the role of attack coach. He sounded surprised Leinster then pivoted to Tyler.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    According to Murray Kinsella there are a number of conditions on Snyman's one year contract with Leinster as well. There's a limit to how many games he can play and starts he can make.

    It's not like he'll monopolise game time and deprived a young Irish lock of appearances. Hamstrings Leinster somewhat as well.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,218 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Can you not at any stage admit that leinster have the best team because they have developed the best team??

    Nobody is saying otherwise! You guys cannot see the wood from the trees here. The discussion is how Leinster can develop the best team.

    Are you saying that Leinster developing the best team has nothing whatsoever to do with money?

    It has nothing whatsoever to having access to the elite and incredibly well funded Dublin private school system?

    It has nothing whatsoever to do with having 10 of your best and highest paid players paid for you allowing you to divert funds to development?

    These are total non-factors in the equation? Leinster develop the best team because everything is equal, the only difference is that the Leinster coaches are so amazing that they can churn out player after player working with the exact same conditions and raw materials as Ulster, Munster and Connacht. Is that what you're telling us?

     Let's not forget Leinster give most to IRFU as well, you only see one side of the ledger due to your bias.

    We can't possibly forget this, it has only been mentioned and discussed about 20 times in the past 2 days.

    The point you refuse to accept is that Leinster's contribution to the IRFU is in large part thanks to the funding Leinster get from the IRFU. When people have been talking about the self-perpetuating system I actually wonder what you think they were talking about, because raising "Leinster make the most money" as a counter-point to this discussion is bizarre given this point merely reinforces how self-perpetuating the system is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Because Leinster have many more good professionals, not necessarily internationals, that they can put their young fellas out amongst.

    Having said that, McLaughlin, McNabney, Crothers, Carson, Hopes, Solomons and O'Brien all got their senior debuts this season, Wilson obviously at the end of last season. Is that of interest, or was it only Telfer you were curious about?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,833 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    There was a time we didn't have 10 central contracts. I wonder how we got to this point?

    Can you admit that leinster have the best home grown academy produced team in Europe?



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who in their right mind wouldn't admit that? That's self evident.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,218 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yes. This is obvious, and nobody has ever denied this.

    Can you admit that Leinster have the best funded academy system in Europe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I think Toulouse and other French teams have a lot more funding than Leinster have

    Now I know that is not the answer you want, Leinster are the root of all issues in World rugby.

    But in reality Leinster budget is nothing close to the big French and never will be. They also can't do what the French teams and spend huge money on multi year contracts for anyone they want. The both recent signing are for 1 year with loads of requirements in the contract

    The second is a 6 month contract

    Both Munster and Ulster have a huge advantage of owning their own stadium.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think Munster are doing well. They have had devastating injuries. In fairness to them, they've really found some quality underage players. Gleeson, Edogbo and Quinn are incredibly good prospects. They have the no.8 from the 20's who'll probably get into the academy. Progress is being made and they've promoted some lads this year. They also took a chance on Hadden and Foxe. Both of whom I expect to be good players. Munster kicked themselves in the nuts by having a gombeen running the show.

    Connacht depend on signings. Mostly from Leinster. The coaching structure is a mess. They should be better that they've shown. Connacht are flailing. It's more so due to the incompetence of Wilkins.

    Ulster are getting there in relation to the academy. Like Munster, lots of good prospects. MacFarland was an utter disaster for the last 28 months of his reign. There's so much wrong top to bottom with Ulster, it's difficult to fathom.



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