Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

It's been discussed loads.

Leinster bring in more revenue because Leinster have the most money and therefore Leinster have the best team. Leinster play more knockout games because Leinster have the most money and therefore Leinster have the best team. Leinster have more supporters because they're in Dublin, but also because Leinster have the most money and are therefore the most successful, so it's really easy to attract new support, which lets them sell more merchandise.

This is exactly the self-perpetuating unbreakable circle that people are talking about.

Yes, Leinster bring in more money. But it's like someone giving me 100 euro, and someone giving you 1000 euro, and me coming back and saying "look at me, I turned my 100 euro into 150 euro", while you coming back and saying "and I turned my 1000 into 1100, clearly there is no imbalance here and I deserve to continue to get more because I am bringing more back".

The repeated assertion by @awec that Leinster have the best players because we get the most money from CC is absolute nonsense. It is literally the opposite of the truth.

Never said this.

Leinster have the best team because they have the most money. Having the most money includes having 10 of your best players paid for you, and not costing you a cent. This allows you to maintain a better squad.

Leinster have the best development pathway because they have the most money. The benefit of not having to pay your 10 best players helps fund this best development pathway (as does having access to the most expensive private schools in the most affluent area in the country, but this is a societal / geographical fact rather than a specific IRFU policy so that's a different discussion).

All of these things add up to Leinster making more money than anyone else, and so the circle continues.

Your comparison of Munster in the 00s and Leinster today is wide of the mark again, IMO.

A common theme in this discussion is just to go round in circles, before eventually declaring that we just don't have any details.

I suppose every time someone says "the other provinces are just mismanaged" or "Ulster need to sort out their academies" I could just blurt out that we don't have any details about any of this, so there's no point discussing it.

But we have plenty of details. We know more than enough to make informed opinions on this topic.

Here's the facts we know:

1. Leinsters [will] have 10 of their first team, their very best players, paid for them. It costs Leinster nothing to have these players. That's a nice saving on the wage front.
2. We know for a fact that central contracts are financially advantageous to provinces. The evidence for this is clear:
   1. We know that when players like POM and Murray have dropped off central deals that the IRFU have had to give parachute payments to their province to ensure they can actually afford to pay them.
   2. We know that when Stockdale lost his central deal that it was a net loss to Ulster's player budget, since they now had to cover his salary.
   3. The system outlined in Thornley's article makes corroborates how the contract system is believed to work.
3. We know that the sum total of central contracts in the other 3 provinces is 3.
4. We therefore know that the other provinces must pay a much greater proportion of their budget on their first choice 23 than Leinster have to. By extension, this frees up money in Leinster to be spent outside of the first choice 23, in places such as:
   1. Luxurious NIQ signings for squad players (see points 5, 6 and 7)
   2. Money to spend maintaining a comparatively high calibre 2nd choice team
   3. Money to spend in the academy on better coaches, equipment, facilities or whatever else.
5. We know that Leinster have enough money to sign Jordie Barrett, someone who is not cheap yet may not even make the 23. Signing someone who is very much a member of the All Blacks 23 merely to bolster your squad depth is a level of squad building that most clubs in the world can only dream of, never mind Irish provinces.
6. We know that Leinster are in the market for a prop, and we know that Leisnter have been sniffing around the likes of Toupu. When Leinster already have 3 test props in their squad, they're shopping for a 4th test prop. Maybe this deal won't go through, but it's clear what sort of calibre is being sought here.
7. Leinster picked up RG Snyman who'll probably sit on the bench. A player that Munster only afforded via private investment. Yes, I'm sure we'll hear all the talk that he's playing for Leinster for pennies etc.

People will point out Kitshoff. It's a fair point, but there are key differences:

1. Ulster were signing Kitshoff to literally be their best forward. He wasn't coming as squad depth, he wasn't coming to be rolled out in March / April / May for knockout games.
2. Kitshoff was signed to try improve the culture at the club and hopefully bring a winning mentality.
3. Ulster's options in Kitshoff's position are bleak.

It didn't work out, criticism of the signing is fair, it was a mistake and there should be consequences for it. If it were up to me, those who signed off on it would be out the door (and they should have been out the door long ago). But it's also a distraction from the major underlying issue.

The problem with the system goes far beyond the academies at the other provinces. Yes, they are a problem, but they're only part of the problem. Pretending that they are the crux of the issue is convenient, because it gives us a way to say we want to fix things, but we don't really want to fix things (i.e. we're happy to "fix" things so long as it doesn't affect Leinster in any way).