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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Russia's an exporter of food and fuel so yes it won't go hungry or cold anytime soon. Similar level sanctions on somewhere like China an importer of food and fuel would be far more concerning for them.

    However, and contrary to much popular belief, sanctions of this magnitude are not designed to be a short sharp shock, but are intended to have a more insidious and long term effect; they massively stunt future economic growth. Russia's industrial growth peaked circa 2009-10 and has dropped off since. Going to a war time economy is indeed growth, but it's of a very narrow nature and isn't sustainable, or scalable and takes away from more long term profitable growth in other areas.

    Put it another more obvious way: You almost certainly use devices Made in China running tech and software Made in the West. We're surrounded by them. OK, what do you, or anyone else owns that is Made/designed In Russia? Some of the hydrocarbons in your car is about it. For such a large country with huge resources and a couple of hundred million people who have proved in the past to be innovative Russia produces a startlingly tiny number of finished goods and even fewer worthy of export and that was the case before this war. By far their biggest finished goods export were weapons. Now with production of same having to be pivoted to the Ukraine war, that doesn't leave much to spare. Never mind their pretty lacklustre performance in theatre against a smaller force with far fewer weapons isn't exactly great advertising. Though Chinese drone tech is likely to be a booming concern…

    "Oh the 1990's are to blame and Russia's still trying to catch up". Yes it has most certainly improved since 2000, but it should be far more improved. In 1945 Germany was occupied by the Allies, flattened from border to border, her industrial infrastructure in ruins, a huge chunk of her working age men dead, the people half starved and the country split in half. Within 20 years the Western side was an industrial powerhouse again. Yes it got a huge cash injection via the Marshall Plan, but Russia was swimming in cash and resources(far more than post war Germany) in 2000. Where did all that cash go? Of course Germany didn't have an oligarch problem robbing its people blind and it knew in no uncertain terms any more expansionist militaristic guff was over.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Same as everything else that comes out of the Kremlin factory of lies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Your knowledge of recent happenings in Russia seem to have several gaps Veda Kind Yak… can it really have escaped your attention the shortages of eggs? and when all the Fuel suppliers were selling their fuel abroad because of the higher prices they were getting, until Putin banned the practice because the whole country was coming to a halt? And even now, they have to import fuel again? What could be wrong I wonder? Why is Putin's marvellous Russian dream turning into a nightmare for ordinary Russians….????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,950 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    That's a good point. They had token value as being part of Russia's peacekeeper role in the former Soviet Union.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,046 ✭✭✭✭briany




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    "OK, what do you, or anyone else owns that is Made/designed In Russia?"

    @Wibbs I've seen Russian tractor tyres on New Holland tractors in Ireland. Apparently that's pretty common (I think New Holland, they're blue tractors.) They're branded 'Made in Russia.' Probably there's more farming kit like that. I don't think the tractor is made in Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Oh and I almost forgot Poon Tank, as if the everyday life for ordinary Russians was not bad enough, they (the ones that can afford and are free to travel, because not everyone is) have to contend now with not only the problems that everyday living brings to them, but now also those damn Ukrainian drones are everywhere, recently, airports in Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Nizhnekamsk, and Sheremetyevo are closed for flights due to the threat of drone attacks, causing chaos for travelers. Ah well, maybe better luck with your flights next week……or maybe not!!! Slava Ukraini!!!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The "Russian" tyres in Ireland on agricultural machinery were made in Ukraine. Go delve deeper on them and you'll find they were made in Ukraine.

    Ukraine is was a powerhouse in manufacturing. Russia fond of vodka and won't work as it's beneath them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    I've also seen the classic RU branding on some hard drives and solid state drives and on various PC components. But I do agree with the overall point. It's one of the reasons I think Russia is going to fall behind in this war eventually.

    You'd want to be stark raving mad to be thinking of a long term future as computer/electronic technician or software engineer in the Russian state as it is. Indeed a huge chunk of this workforce already absconded abroad when first mobilization was announced. And if any further mobilizations are announced I'm sure that trend will continue.

    These people may not be immediately obvious in a war that has thus far relied on grunts sitting in a trench or firing a mortar. But when it comes to drones…. Even specifically AI enabled drones. You know? The kind of drone that doesn't f*cking care if your tank has EW capabilities duct taped to it. These kinds of technologies are in their infant stage right now, but they won't be for long. And that's just one example

    If you're too busy hemorrhaging your tech workforce to other countries or using them to soak up 155mm shells then that's going to come back to you tenfold eventually.

    Anyways.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The kinda interesting thing is during Soviet times there were Soviet/Russian made goods being sold in The West™. I've mentioned before my dad had a portable Selena "transistor radio" made in the USSR and very proud of it he was. Oh and I still have it and it still works too. 😊👍️ He also had a Soviet watch and a mate of mine in school getting into photography had a Soviet camera. A few cars showed up too. The early 70's Mokvich(sp) was one. They also exported goods and expertise in turbine tech and power production.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    I notice a new trend in Russian trolls on YouTube comments trying to distance themselves from the USSR and labeling people as ignorant for associating the two. They are arguing that Russia was “oppressed” by the USSR and most of its leaders were non Russian. And therefore NATO should not exist either seen as their adversary is gone.

    The Russian SSR was nearly the entire USSR minus Ukraine , Belarus, the southern republics etc. it was led from the very same Kremlin with power centralized in Moscow. I know modern day Russia is very different to the USSR. But Russia oppressed by the USSR wtf? If that’s the case Gorbachev should be a hero in modern day Russia and he clearly isn’t. But the foreign ,Georgian, oppressor in chief, Josef Stalin is held in higher regard . Putin resurrected the old Soviet national anthem in the mid noughties as well. So it’s clear this is just more scutter for the scutter gun of falsehoods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,820 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Haven't owned anything russian (to my knowledge) but did play bass through a Sovtek amplifier many moons ago and it was fantastic. Also borrowed a Sovtek Big Muff pedal, which was equally amazing and wanted to source my own, but couldn't. The Electro Harmonix equivalent wasn't the same. Managed to get a clone locally made though, which did the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Just to add to the Russian Economic growth conversation. That's what happens in war time. Turning their resources over to making things that will be destroyed in Ukraine counts toward GDP figures even though it has limited value to the real economy.

    Here's the UK's GDP figures during WWII. Note the 4 years of growth after the outbreak of the war that included a time when cities were being bombed by the Luftwaffe:

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭scottser


    EHX tubes are still made by Sovtek in Russia. Their quality is excellent in fairness. I've had an EHX 6L6 in my VHT Special 6 for the last 4 years and not a bother on it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Putin is a cuddly teddy bear compared to any Soviet Social Socialist leader, including Gorbachev, who killed about 2 million civilians in Afghanistan and lots more besides.

    Putin is a vile orick but the depth and savagery of the USSR is not fully appreciated or ever discussed.

    Russians had it better than others but every one was shi7 on the shoe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Missile factory on fire in Moscow

    Tank factory under water in Urals

    But hey I am sure this will do wonders to the self reported economic figures by time it reaches Putin’s desk and forwarded onto the spinsters



  • Posts: 0 Veda Kind Yak


    And yet Russia are still standing strong.

    Does your worn out "Slava Ukraini" jibe have any actual meat behind it? That and giving a big wad of cash isn't going to cut it… Ukraine are going to need far more commitment from the west to have any hope in this conflict.

    If Putin and Russia really are this grave threat to Europe and perhaps the world, that the propagandists have tried to convince us, why then are more westerners not eagerly signing up in their millions to help fight off this terrible tyrant? Have we lost our metal as a culture? Have we gone a bit soft in the gut? Or have we been fed a load of baloney, and most citizens are aware of this? (even if they don't openly admit it)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,130 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    How can Russia still have the technology and factories to build these weapons?


    In a country best known for the lada ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,620 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Lada were selling to the impoverished Russian people, not the government and oligarchs, hence the disparity.

    Weapons manufacturers can make (relatively) technologically advanced stuff because the government funnel money into it, instead of investing in things that help the masses.

    Anything they need to import they just pay a premium and someone gets it shipped to Uzbekistan and rolls it over the border to evade sanctions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,525 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    A report by TASS state news agency sought to portray the reported fire as a drill but other accounts indicated there had been a fire at the key Putin defence plant. There were claims that smoke at the scene was in fact not real.

    “To bring the exercise conditions as close as possible to combat ones, pyrotechnic smoke devices were used in the premises,” a spokesman was quoted as saying. 

    Nothing to see here, move along…..fake news, fake smoke…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    "still standing strong"… "robust"… You do realise they are the invading force, not the defenders? Your descriptions don't apply to the aggressor in a conflict. This was a 'special military operation' Putin thought would be over in a heartbeat. The fact that they're still in Ukraine, having faced no more than the Ukrainian military, is not something to be overly boastful about.

    Hopium indeed… keep dreaming because your arguments on here are deluded.

    Edit: I'm loathe to call anyone a troll (even one with such strong views on the war but who has miraculously only signed up to discuss in the last week), but since you pick and chose which replies to engage with and refuse to back up your comments when challenged - numerous times now - I've no interest in engaging with you any further on this thread.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Having to import weapons from North Korea and Iran should give one an indication of how far Russia has fallen industrially from the Soviet days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Painting Russia as a nation of lazy, uneducated, vodka drinking inepts as many posters on here have done over the past couple of years is a silly thing to do. Anyone with a grasp of history or who works in IT will appreciate that Russia produces incredibly smart and capable graduates in the science and technology fields. For all its poverty and faults it continues to be one of the world leaders in space exploration. You don't do that if the Lada is the best you can come up with.

    People really need to separate their view of Putin from that of the average educated Russian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    I've travelled through Russia on my motorbike back in 2003 on my way to Vladivostok. Wonderful warm people outside of Moscow anyway. Couldn't do enough to help you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Russia since '22 has become heavily sanctioned, had hundreds of billions in assets frozen, lost their largest and more lucrative energy customers, currency has lost approx 30% of it's value, hundreds of thousands of their troops have been killed/injured (and thousands of tanks, vehicles and craft), countless numbers of skilled workers have fled the country, they have been shut out of the most lucrative financial systems and have become global pariahs

    Putin is currently attempting to invade a European country (after annexing territory and sparking a proxy war in the region). Plans have been leaked that Belarus, Transnistria and other areas were next in line. He has run a potent disinfo and propaganda campaign for years, meddled in international elections, had no qualms using nerve agent in foreign nations to assassinate people, evening TV news hosts regularly talk of invading and attacking other European countries and cities. Putin by his actions very much wants to destablise and fracture Europe and the West as well invade areas by force

    The people who think he will "stop" with Ukraine were similar to those who said he would "stop" with Crimea, and then said he would "stop" with Donbas. In my experience these individuals are most likely to believe Kremlin propaganda whilst projecting that anything to the contrary is "propaganda" (which is also on page one of the Kremlin's playbook)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭zv2


    I think Gorbachev was a good man. He had to go along with the Afghanistan thing if he was to remain in power and end the Soviet Union.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭thomil


    It's definitely a fair point, and one that's worth being expanded to Russia's military as well. There has to be a certain number of competent and even skilled officers in the Russian Armed Forces, otherwise the whole force would have fallen apart by now due to a complete lack of logistics and leadership. All those artillery shells need to get to the front somehow.

    I do feel though as if Russia has fallen behind the USSR in terms of its scientific and technical abilities, even compared to the later Brezhnev era. For all its many faults, the Soviets appreciated science, even if only as another front in the cold war. There was a much freer flow of scientific papers into and out of the country back then than there is today, and the country didn't shy away from testing out advanced and sometimes crazy concepts such as the Ekranoplans and other ground effect vehicles. Meanwhile, much of the output of the Putin era seems to be a rehashing of Soviet era research and systems. They still haven't been able to get a replacement for the Soyuz capsule in place despite working on it for ages. I can't shake the feeling that the modern political apparatus that Putin has built is much "better" at smothering bright minds than the Soviet system was,

    Also, it's worth pointing out that Russia has suffered a significant brain drain for much of its post-soviet existence, with loads of the brightest people ending up in Silicon Valley (Sergey Brin of Google fame, anyone)? So while it is undoubtedly true that there are still loads of brilliant minds in the country, as well as a wealth of institutional knowledge, it is nowhere near the juggernaut it once was.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭thomil


    Just on that, it was never his plan to end the USSR. He was a communist through and through. His aim was always to reform the country, basically do what China had been doing for years at that point. The collapse of the USSR came about after Chernobyl laid bare just how fragile the system had become.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Given the fact it was supposed to take a few days to invade the nation, going pretty terribly. You seem to be a bit of a fan of Putin's goal of genocide though.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭jmreire


    They are that…I lived there for several years, and if Putin was gone, I go back in a heartbeat.



This discussion has been closed.
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