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Kyle Hayes Suspended Sentence

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense of the original accusation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,583 ✭✭✭boardise




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭LeoD


    No, it highlights the faux outrage and hypocrisy of those who consider the suspended sentence an injustice when much more serious crimes get similar treatment every day of the week without a peep. 18 months prison for someone who hasn't put a foot wrong before or since for a fight in a nightclub? If that's the standard people expect we better start building 1000's of prison cells fast. Anyone who thinks an amateur athlete must be some sort of public role model does so on their own volition. Everyone has their flaws and make mistakes - unfortunately for KH because he's particularly good at his hobby his mistake gets plastered all over the front pages of the national press and he'll have to endure verbal abuse from thousands of individuals for years to come. Of course what he did that night was terrible but on the balance of things he's done a lot more good than bad in his life so he should just be allowed to get on with his life. But of course that won't be possible as that's the society we live in now so best of luck with the keyboard anger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Kyle Hayes is nothing more than an unrepentant lowlife.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,739 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The very thought out and sustained nature of Hayes’s actions paint to me a nasty bastid. Even more galling that Kiely was so supportive



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Conversations 3


    You're at nothing trying to defend him, he's a thug and that's it.

    He fought inside and outside the nightclub, kicked a man on the ground in the head and then ran away from the Gardai.

    Then he decides to plead not guilty to all charges, and shows no remorse.

    He's meant to be a role model to young gaa fans, he's teaching them they can get away with assault if they're good at hurling.

    Kiely is nearly as bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Seadin


    Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Kilkennys team of the 00s were untouchable and then they were beaten.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Not bizarre. Easy Leinster campaign. And they've been beating Munster No. 2, Clare for the past 2 years.

    If you swapped Kilkenny and Clare to the opposite provinces Clare might be 2nd favourite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Charlie Carter was one of Kilkenny's top forwards 1997-2003. He wasn't seeing eye to eye with Cody. Cody dropped him.

    At the 2011 AI homecoming, John Mullhall, St. Martin's, sang a song, drunkish and cursed. Cody remarked to Mick Dempsey, selector, 'that's the last time that lad will wear the black and amber'. And he never did.

    Who represents you is important.

    Post edited by Eibhir on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    And it starts at a young age. U14s and second year hurlers on a pedestal in schools. Thinking they're better than other children. Other talents should be equally lauded.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Yes but Horgan boxed a bouncer face to face. He didn't kick him continuously on the ground in the head.

    Anyone trying to make comparisons are clutching at straws.

    Plus Horgan apologised and was never in a case again. Kyle Hayes and his 2 brothers were up for assaults. You don't have to be Einstein to draw conclusions that that family resort to violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    We have the government bringing out referenda on real side issues, but they are part of a liberal agenda so are priority.

    Real priorities like housing, ensuring immigrants are vetted, crime and our judicial system aren't up for discussion. Judges like Martin Nolan continue to release threatening people back into society, sexual predators, serial drink drivers, fraudsters, violent people, drug dealers etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    I think you're missing the point here. It's a good rhetorical technique to mention 'whataboutery' as if no other comparison can be suggested without it looking like an excuse.

    However, it seems to me that the law is all about precedent/comparison and anyone in my company in recent months with a whisker of experience of the law (including guards) was saying that with no previous convictions, and a not guilty verdict on the assault charge, this would almost certainly be a suspended sentence. As a (Limerick) Guard said to me a few months back when predicting this "they don't even put the criminals in jail these days".

    The examples the other poster provided are extremely relevant and show that this verdict is not an outlier by any means. Then again when you have people saying things like "he should get jail for not showing remorse" (what are you in jail for?......oh I killed someone........what about you?.......oh I didn't say sorry..) or he should get jail because he said "do you know who I am?" reality is out the window.

    The law doesn't care whether you like someone or not. Nor does it worry much about who wins the All Ireland. It will generally sentence someone within consistently established parameters (otherwise the sentence won't stand up) and that's what happened here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,018 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    If that's true then Cody is a fuking muppet.

    I wouldn't want some stuck up Mary Whitehouse like that "representing me" (not that I think any sports person represents me)

    I doubt it's true though because there are plenty of stories of Kilkenny players doing wilder (not bad) stuff than cursing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭almostover


    It wasn't a fight in a nightclub. It was a beating of a man by a gang of other men led by Kyle Hayes. They beat a defebless man while he lay on the ground outside a nightclub, fracturing his eye socket. It was a disgusting and cowardly act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Charlie Carter was a only sub in the 2002 All Ireland final. He sulked because despite a few successful games in 2003 it was clear he was still not in Cody's plans as a starter. Mulhall was peripheral anyway. Being a boorish character would not have been the proximate reason for his marginalisation. They were both dispensible.

    Cody never had a player like Kyle Hayes nor a comparable situation. There is no evidence as to how he'd have reacted, only chest-beating and claims of moral superiority. Since Cody was charged with winning hurling matches rather than shaping the moral character of a people I would expect Cody would've stood by his man if, like I said, he had had a player like Kyle Hayes, and a comparable situation. And I'd fancy that the player'd be cheered to the rafters by every yokel from Ballyhale to Kilkenny as he took the field if he was likely to help them win. It'd be called "supporting him" and generally passed off in second-chance and well-being language as a sign of the superiority of Kilkenny people for having the moral fibre to forgive and help lift the fallen in their time of need. Speculation of course but it's speculation as worthy as anyone else's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 996 ✭✭✭Glenomra




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Well 11 AI's and the most successful gaa manager in history speaks volumes for muppets. It was on the parade in the city at the official homecoming. Cody saw a fella who's character he didn't like.

    Post edited by Eibhir on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Carter was still an excellent hurler as shown in the 2002 county final. Mulhall upcoming. Cody had countless excellent hurlers dropped off panels between 1998 and 2022. He had standards. Kiely has come out of this as bad, if not worse, than Hayes.

    You speak of supposition at the start of your post and then all the talk of cheered from Ballyhale to Kilkenny is..supposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Is he a suitable person from a moral point of view to represent Limerick.

    He didn't have the balls or moral compass to man up to his actions. He could have saved the victim and the state the hassle and expense of a trial.

    Kiely the snake as good as lying on his behalf in court and had to be pulled up on it by the judge , shame on him.

    JP a fantastic charitable man could put a stop to all this social media crap and request that hayes is suspended from squad for the duration of his court sentence. Instead hayes miraculously comes up with 65k offer to victim to drop the case.

    Hayes , Kiely and anyone that claps him on the back and this drive for 5 **** , shame on every one of ye. 99% of the country hope Limerick are beat out the gate in every match.

    Paddy Jackson and Stuart holding were publicly hounded out of Ireland despite been found not guilty.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Posts: 258 Selene Spoiled Beach


    Unless the population of Limerick has suddenly shrunk, 99% might be a tad of an exaggeration 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    I think you'll find I explicitly acknowledged the supposition on both sides if you read my post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    In 2014 Diarmuid Connolly appeared in court charged with assault. Connolly was at the height of his power as a player, Jim Gavin didn't plead on his behalf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Well not every Limerick person is a sheep following the Limerick hurling team. In the office section 4 of us wouldn't cross the road to watch them. All people living in Limerick.

    Limerick fans are as bad as the team. Can't wait for them to be shut up , for another 20 something years at least

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    In hurling terms Kiely is a great manager.

    However, he has achieved his success with one group of players, who he has mentored since underage. Cody's 2000 team was different from 2003. The 2006-09 team was different again. And basically a new team in 2015.

    Will Kiely rebuild after this team goes, and win again. He has 5 All Irelands, serious achievement. But literally he's not half way to Cody's 11. And, he's lost a huge amount of respect across the country. Including within his own county. Cody's biggest scandal was 'handshake gate', it pales in comparison to what Kiely has done, and tried to justify.

    Plenty of managers across sports have the balls to cut loose players. Kevin Cassidy let go by Jim McGuinness, who along with Karl Lacey was his most decorated All Star, and best player. No one is bigger than the team. When you let standards slip on who represents your county it can lead to a decline across the board.

    Limerick's breakthrough after a 45 year weight, was enjoyed outside the county. A lot of us remember their heartbreak in 1994, 1996. They are a team for the ages who brought hurling to a new level. They have remarkable players all over the pitch like Cian Lynch and Kyle Hayes.

    This is a sad affair. Personally I think if Hayes admitted guilt, showed remorse, and Kiely stayed out of it, people wouldn't care about the suspended sentence and would move on. It's how the case has been dealt with by Hayes and Kiely in the last few months that have annoyed many.

    People say this siege mentality it has caused will help Limerick to 5 in a row. I don't think so. It's not like Colin Lynch's suspension for Clare, probably unfairly, in 1998. It's not like Cormac McAnallen's death in 2004 driving Tyrone on in 2005. It's an unnecessary distraction for Limerick that's putting them in the limelight way too early in the season.

    A poster said it will take nothing out of Hayes. I agree, he has shown nothing effects him. However, it might take something out of the team overall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    I don't see how someone in a vehicle committing a crime has any relevance to this assault case. Every case is different.

    And I think it's obvious that the vast majority of people in the country are very frustrated with sentencing right across the board from sexual deviancy to bankers stealing millions to brown envelope payments to politicians. It's not a new thing. The vast majority of people angry at this sentencing have no interest in hurling. They see someone in a position of privilege getting away with something because of who they are, yet again. A desire for stronger sentencing is not new or related to this case. That's been around a long time. When people read that a victim lost the ability to drive a night and see suspended sentence and a measly 10,000 they get angry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Im not comfortable as a Limerick supporter with Hayes playing in this years Championship!

    Its not a good look for Limerick GAA!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Not half as bad as some Limerick fans more or less clapping Kyle Hayes on the back telling him fair play to him.

    Or your manager caught lying

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭Seadin


    This will come back to bite Limerick yet later on. Just wait and see.



This discussion has been closed.
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