ETFs taxation in ireland

JAM - https://markets.ft.com/data/investment-trust/tearsheet/summary?s=JAM:LSE, its not an ETF, its a closed end fund or Investment trust, thankfully they are treated as normal shares for CGT purposes, there is no eight year disposal nonsense.

Its available on T212 and IBKR that I know of, used to be on Degiro previously also, I left them because they pulled it (and other Investment Trusts for reasons unclear).

Regarding degiro I noticed that they have put some investment trusts like city of London investment trust in a separate category titled " ETFS and Trackers". I rang them to query this that city of London is not an etf or a tracker, its a trust that invests in a set of companies it doesn't track anything? Didn't get anywhere with them, my concern is that revenue doing a trawl of brokerage accounts will flag this up as an etf that was not declared and then investors will have to go through a laborious individual process to prove that they are not at all because degiro have wrongly categorised them?

"Revenue doing a trawl of brokerage accounts"

What information do stockbrokers report to Revenue?

A little of my history ten years ago I bought properties in Ireland

5 years ago I moved to ireland

3 years ago i left ireland but i still own 4 properties in ireland and pay income taxes and cgt tax and taxes on my stock market investments

This year I sold an apt and after paying a huge cgt bill i have 100,000 euro burning a hole in my pocket

I do not want to buy anymore property and i feel there will be a recession soon and the stock market correction will cause shares to decrease by about 30%….hence i am avoiding shares, but keeping the 30,000 i already have in shares….I bought cruise ship shares during covid so CGT would hit hard

Now my idea is as follows

Invest in Bond ETFs then wait for the crash and take money from the etfs and invest it in shares….can anyone give me advice??

Assume everything and you'll have no issues

Don't think so

Some talk of reduction in tax rate and perhaps dropping of 8 year deemed disposal...

I'm stunned that's the recommendation. Great news.

If any FF TD is here, you have my vote now for the best election. Don't make me have to switch again in 5 years if you fail to remove deemed disposable.

I think you have to go with what the current rules are

Still no certainty this will come to pass....

I'm in the ill believe it when I've seen it camp

I've witnessed so many imaginary carrots being dangled before that didn't materialise....

Yeah...it could be a while...

Don't get me wrong I would still consider ETFs vs Investment Trusts

For one thing they can be much more diversified, not actively managed etc

ITs can trade at a discount to NAV for years, their dividends/distributions will be taxed at your marginal rate

The DD and no ability to offset losses still might not be enough put me off some accumulating ETFs...but it does make them much less attractive when they shouldn't be imo

In reality I'd probably opt for a mix of ETF IT, and stocks/shares ...after a lot of research.....outside of a pension.

But it is a bit shite the taxation drives people to more concentrated risky investments when I'd assume a majority of them would be better off in ETFs if investing outside of a pension.

Some articles in the last week about them reducing the exit tax rate from 41% back to 33 but nothing about actually abolishing deemed disposal. Also they not doing it themselves but are being pushed into by EU as they want more retail investment in European stocks. Maybe keep the pressure on Irish government by pointing out that Ireland is a tax haven for 1 trillion in us ETFs that domicile in Ireland, yet Irish domestic investors are effectively completely shut out of the whole ETF market

My suspicion is that there are some very red socialists in positions of power in Revenue and Finance who don't want the Irish populace to have a path to wealth creation, they want you working for the man and only having enough wealth to get you to your grave. Any left over, well they have the worlds highest inheritance taxes to fix that. They also don't want people saving, they want them to spend nearly every cent they can to generate economic activity. They want control over the financial lives of as much of the population as possible, and they have achieved that aim.

The current minister wants to change ETF taxation - obviously they failed to disuade him; so these lazy pricks stall for all they are worth and tell him it's going to take them years, when any other country could do it in weeks.

Ireland has the most progressive taxation system in the EU. So why does it have this parasitic Quango?: Commission on Taxation and Welfare

Their one and only job is to recommend tax increases - constantly, without end. Not doing so means they do themselves out of a job. Their head is an Irish woman whose a professor at the London School of Economics. She's on two six figure salaries - one in the UK and one from her work heading these tax the rich socialists. I think it reasonable to suppose she is tax resident in the UK so wouldn't have to pay the high tax levels she's always recommending if they were adopted.

How does the Irish public tolerate this nonsense?

Think I'm exaggerating? https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-prsi-hikes-on-the-cards-to-plug-state-pensions-gap/a941686558.html

In a briefing document for minister Dara Calleary, department officials highlight the need to address the sustainability of the pension system as a top priority.

Sounds possibly reasonable, if you don't know that in 2022 Ireland had the largest budget surplus of any country in the EU.

It gets better. Then we got the Apple money, so now we've gone from the largest surplus in the EU at €5.2 billion to our current gargantuan €25 billion

Do you see a pattern here yet? We have the most equitable wealth redistribution in the EU, so we have a quango who's only job is to recommend ever greater shifts of wealth from middle and high income earners to the 'money for nothing, chicks for free' crowd. We have an absolutely enormous budget surplus, but we need to raise PRSI rates.

WTF? I mean WTF?

I think the financial crash gave the socialists in Ireland alot of power

"We bailed out the banks" etc and all that malarkey, they frightened away the " vulture funds" and now nobody will build apartments and city accommodation. Yet we have government feeding like vultures on the small wealth generated from ETFs held domestically, every 8 years they return for more blood sapping the fund of any life it may have gotten back after the last transfusion

I don't get this……how is it possible for me to get tax relief on money I put in an ETF? (as part of planning for pension)