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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Interesting stat for Crowley, some of it could that Frawley was used on a 6-2 bench but either way it's a fair vote of confidence in him.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    When Sexton was playing the 6-2 wasn't really an option as he went off, Crowley is young enough not to need to go off.

    For his first playing championship it is impressive to end it with a title, still only 12 caps I heard someone say? and most people say it's at least 10 caps before you can even start to get your feet at 10



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,016 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Need to move on Murray now. He's nowhere near the player he was in we should give playing time to Blade or Casey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Today was his swansong too. Unlikely we'll see him, Healy or POM in a green jersey again. Three wonderful players from out most successful period of international rugby.

    I'm worried most about replacing Healy. We need to find an international level loose head fast!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not convinced it is the last we see of Healy precisely because of the lack of options behind him, but let's see.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Agree fully, hence my worry! My biggest fear is an injury to Porter. Healy currently is a 10-15 mins option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Murray has just signed a 1 year contract and I would suggest he is still firmly in the coachs plans till next season at least



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Christ! As a Munster fan I've been cursing him all season long! Suppose it's up to the incumbents to do their stuff and make sure he's no longer an option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    JGP has been superb for us over the last 2 1/2 years. The fact that he was still superb for us when shifted to the wing against Scotland in the World Cup and against England last week is a further bow to his crown. In both games he came off his wing and made great passes which led to tries. Dupont has been the only better scrum half in the world over the same time period. He’s an attacking player who tries to create things so of course at times they don’t come off, but apart from that, where’s the hyperbole?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,367 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Murray will probably continue to be number 2 for Ireland because nobody else is staking a claim for the jersey. Farrell clearly isn't convinced by Casey yet and there's previous little from elsewhere.

    Maybe Doak will eventually develop, but by all accounts he's going to split him minutes between 9 and 10 for Ulster next season. So that won't help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    In case anyone still thinks we should only be concentrating on the World Cup





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Might help if the head coach wants to go with a 6 2 split.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Something is badly off with the Irish team at the moment. Attack has been miles below what it's previously been over the last 3 games. Guys making basic errors under no pressure. No depth in key positions. Lots of players 30+ and well past their best. Major reebot needed over the next 9 months or we'll have fallen miles behind by 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Piskin


    The silly mistakes and decision making even when not under pressure was back to the old days of the 90s. Take JBP, Lowe,AKI, out of that side and you have a poor enough side in fairness. Beginning to have serious doubts about Farrell at this stage, last years WC he made some awful decisions and this year the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think Milne will get a run out in S.A. There's a chance to rest up lads and blood a couple. I'd like to see Casey get both starts and Baird/ Prendergast also. Osborne will get in, I believe and it would be a good testing experience for Jager/O'Toole. New caps I hope to see; Ahern, Osborne and McAnn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    New 10, hansen is huge loss

    Keenan out

    Ringrose out

    That’s a lot of change for the backs and the lack of Sexton plus Hansen plus Ringrose started to look like it in end

    Crowley is only 10 caps in or so and he is going one direction, give him a SA tour and a AI before next 6 nations and then he will feel like he owns that positikn

    Stick back in Ringrose and Hansen and it will improve but we can’t stand stil, every team in World is after Ireland and looking to shut them down. A change in plan might be called for as Joe used to do…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Yes. Unlike soccer where a team can slide slowly off the very top over a number of seasons, it seems in rugby that the decline is much more swift. Perhaps the chemistry of the team is more easily unbalanced when a few stalwarts begin to lose their top edge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Ireland look laboured and inclined to run up blind alleys rather than the slick, fast, clever and devastating plays we have become used to seeing. Good v. France but declining in each game since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Just to be certain on how poor we were in the 5 and 6 nations prior to the late 90's is that we still hold the wooden spoon title for most number of wins with 25 wooden spoons, we haven't won one since 1998, of course Italy joining took a bit of pressure off the other teams. Wales on the other hand are going the opposite way.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That's my stat :-)

    I remember watching the first season Italy joined and we thought it was great becuase we wouldn't win the wooden spoon every season anymore, that was the ambition of Irish rugby, some change in such a short time frame

    Also from a 6 nations point of view I think it was Gerry THornley who pointed out Ireland have been the most consistent in terms of finishing in the top 3 for a number of years now....France etc have all dropped in and out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Someone said yesterday, if the fixtures were reversed, started poorly v Scotland, lost away to England in a one score game, beat Italy & Wales and then a BP win away v France this 6Ns win would have been seen a fantastic result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,801 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Strange game yesterday. We were the much better side in my opinion but execution just not on the level it has been over the last 2 years which is understandable in my book.

    It's been a strange 6 nations as is sometimes the case post a world cup cycle. There hasn't been a single game this tournament where I thought we played anything like we have in the build up the world cup. The players are not anywhere near the physical levels they reached. There is also the factor that Leinster are also in the midst of a transition which will have some kind of affect on the Ireland team.

    It's easy to forget just how good Johnny was and how much he made us tick in attack. I've kept my thoughts to myself on Crowley thus far. He had a good game vs France but I think he's been only ok in the remaining games and that's more than acceptable at this point. He's very talented and he's earned the right now to grow into the role but I don't think he's the mortal lock of Irish starting out-half at the next world cup that some seem to think is the case.

    There is going to be a decent amount of upheaval in the squad I think over the next 12 months. We are in a great position compared to every other team in the 6 nations. There is some serious talent coming through at Leinster in particular. Will be interesting to see what's going to happen now post Mike Catt. Our attack has been sensational at times under him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    Good post and honestly would be very surprised if Crowley is our starting 10 at the next World Cup. Just don't see the quality in him. I think so much of the stagnation in our attack comes from his inability to take the ball to the line and fully commit defenders, something Sexton was a master at. Crowley did it once in the entire game as far as I can remember at the end of the second half on 43 mins. It was incredibly noticeable watching the France v England game how much flatter Ford & Ramos played v Crowley and their first step was so often forward rather than sideways and entirely static. Problem is the defenders just know he is going to pull the ball back and can offer the soft shoulder to him knowing there is little chance of him taking it up hard or inside. He has a huge amount of work to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,944 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You were saying the same after the France game and it still remains not remotely true.

    He had 2 big involvements in the 2 tries versus England; one was literally a pass behind the England blitz. Same thing with the France performance, he got the pass away just before taking a tackle, the phase before the JGP try. And made the Beirne try.

    And that's only on tries, and off the top of my head.

    You were championing Harry Byrne after that France; how do you think he played?

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,304 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I don't think anyone expects a replacement for Sexton but I agree with some of the criticism of Crowley. He definitely is not a world class number 10 in the making and his decision making, execution and penalty taking has been poor. Don't think anyone can dispute that.

    He strikes me as a below average fly-half.

    Do we have much choice right now?

    Probably not.

    Could he improve?

    Maybe.

    A long term replacement for Sexton?

    I don't think so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    F**k that is harsh, he hasn't even played 15 international games yet and Sexton was 50 games in and people still called for him to be dropped

    Give him about 20 caps and then we can make a call on him at least, seems a few people are willing to throw him under the bus

    THis is his first full season at 10 for both club and country. Last year he spent much of the season playing other roles for club and was only around the squad for Ireland. Playing a few mins in games in WC of course but now he is number 1

    It will also take some time for the players around him to get used to him compared to playing with Sexton, some of the plays it looked like the players suddenly expected a move Sexton would play and forgot Crowley was 10, especially under pressure, This is natural after so long with Sexton but so little time with Crowley running the 10 role.

    At this stage we seem to have a number of options at 10, Crowley and Harry seem to be the two going for the 10 slot, Frawley as the bench option. Not a bad group of players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I find it bizarre seeing people trying to downplay Crowley and McCarthy’s first serious run in the first team. Think both of them did great generally as part of the team and had super individual moments. They’ll continue to improve with more experience but both are definitely up to this level.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Crowley is absolutely fine. He has areas to work on in his game, but that is hardly surprising.

    He, like the rest of the team, seemed to fall off a bit after the France match. He could trust himself more to attack the line himself, but he has the athleticism to do so (unlike Ross Byrne for example) and the confidence will come. He definitely needs to work on his penalty taking, but it's far too early doors to worry about that too much yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It normally comes down to which province they play for and people complaining about them, both McCarthy and Crowley are in their first proper season as starters for Leinster/Munster. Based on what I seen the upside is huge for both and getting them in now is better long term

    I do find it hilarious the people complaining about them you will probably find are the same people who complain we don't give youth a chance, when we do they slaughter them.

    I do also think Murray is getting unfair questions over him, he is one of the best players ever for Ireland, he still add's huge quality to the team and from the bench brings that massive experience. I don't see the England loss down to him, the kick as Jackman or someone else rightly pointed out was a plan.

    I do hope Ulster continue with Doak at 9 and not move to 10, I think that will be a huge loss to Ireland in the future.



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