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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    He wore the long black coat when he went to murder Sophie.

    He soaked it in a bucket of bleach afterwards.

    He wore the same coat on Christmas Day in the swim video.

    Then he burned it in the bonfire next day.

    Then later The Gardai came and took the magic coat away as evidence.

    Then the Gardai lost the long black coat.

    I might have the sequence of events mixed up a bit.

    There was nothing of evidential value found in the remnants of the fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    In what way does it add suspicion to IB ? if nothing of any evidential value was found in the remnants of the fire ? Again I ask why would he have lit a bonfire that would arouse suspicion when he could have burnt whatever it was, indoors ?

    And why keep mentioning it in post after post ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Deeec


    You are right in that if he was getting rid of incriminating evidence lighting a fire in your back yard after a murder in the area is not the cleverest way of getting rid.

    Some people seem to think lighting a fire outside was very odd behaviour, but back in the 90s many country areas didn't have a bin collection service at all. It was common back then to light fires every few weeks to get rid of rubbish and old tat. I know this is what we done back then as did all our neighbours.

    The fact Bailey lit a fire is not evidence at all that he is guilty. I'm sure everyone in the area lit fires so by that logic others should be suspects too.

    It's a case of Bailey became chief suspect, Delia remembered the fire and 2+2=5 with AGS.

    The fire could be relevant or it could be completely irrelevant. It can't be used as evidence though when it was commonplace for people to light fires back then. It would be considered unusual now but not back then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭Zola1000


    Ok so firstly we know Farrell is no longer credible witness, and you make reference, are we supposed to start believing what she said now. Well I'm not asking anyone to do that. Do you think Farrell's statements are any more credible than AGS witness statements that were doctored by AGS themselves. Eitheway lets not say anything about sighting or that Farrell went to AGS on her own accord at beginning . Wasn't It Said with certainly that Farrell was not intimidated by bailey...there was no examples of cases of this and it was clarified in high court that time and through Bailey's solicitor , he had not threatened her. It was garda operation.

    Yes in Grahams example he may have gone to police first...are you saying that ultimately transpires to stint operation on bailey? There is documentary evidence to show...the police asking Graham would he consider doing a job for them..and there would be something in it for him..so eitherway be it money drink or cigarettes etc, it was influencing him to get informed from bailey..and hash was certainly considered in that operation in hope bailey would release information. It was desperate tactics and there is reference as you say in DPP report.

    I've made no reference to Tapes but again I know there was certainly mention of files between Garda officer and superior to effect of what we may or may not submit to DPP and if what they had was useful or reference to leaving out information. This I will have locate but others may correct me here or locate if it was in some of documentaries.

    You'll still agree that none of above reads well in respects of keeping keys aspects of case confidential or by the book or being conducted in manner that is keeping with how the public would want information gathering , do you agree that these practices lack serious misconduct and furthermore considerable amount of public opinion on case would be of lacking confidence in AGS practices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Bailey mislead the Gardai about his whereabouts the night of the murder.

    For some bizarre reason he mislead the Gardai about his whereabouts the night before the murder.

    He may have mislead the Gardai about how well he knew or didn't know Sophie. He claims he never meet her, others claim he did.

    And then you have this fire that he claims was no later than early December but that someone else claims was around Christmas time.

    All of this ambiguity and misleading people doesn't look good for someone who is a suspect.

    I'm not saying that it points to him as a murderer, but for seasoned investigators looking at it I'm sure it's not helping him.

    Do you not get that?

    Can you not grasp that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭Zola1000


    The above reasons are clearly showing a concerted effort by guards to ramp up case file on bailey..and weather you believe that or not in way that's inadvertently led to DPP using that train of theme against AGS to rule in lack of evidence. That to me is ultimately why we are here 27 odd years later. Any Cold case team have to revert back to putting credibility into what is already massive lack of credibility on originally submitted files.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    I have been through the exhibit list with a fine tooth comb, and there is nothing on it that refers to items recovered from the fire. This was however the list that was sent to France and I am fairly sure it is not all the exhibits that AGS recovered because it is remarkably short in the context of a murder investigation. But if anything of evidential value or anything which implicated Bailey in any way was recovered from the fire I'm fairly sure those items would be included.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 333 ✭✭head82


    This may have already been answered previously. If so.. apologies for the repitition. Was the file (exhibit list included) submitted to the DPP and subsequently deemed not worthy of pursuing a criminal case against Bailey, the exact same as that submitted to the French authorities?

    Or did the file, evidence etc., submitted to the French authorities also include information pertaining to other potential suspects or any other information that the Irish DPP not receive?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    I don't know what exactly the DPP received so I can't answer the first part of your question.

    The French file makes no real mention of other suspects. There are names included of some who were initially considered suspects by AGS but they are not designated as suspects and without further enquiry the French authorities would not have been aware of their significance. By that I mean there are statements from some of these people but they are merely witness statements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I have been inspired by this thought-provoking thread to have a second listen to the "West Cork" podcast. Excellently composed and presented, by the way - an addictive listen!

    A detail has caught my attention; (sorry for gruesome)

    I gather that the deceased lady was lying face up, with her head towards the open gate, and her clothing caught in the hedge on the opposite side of the lane from her own property. Can anyone confirm that this description is correct?

    I just wonder whether a scene-of-crime expert can infer anything from her actual position? It seems to imply that she was facing her attacker, no? Tyre tread marks just a short bit away, but no marks of her own boot prints?

    And why did the Gardaí assume that Sophie had been chased down the field from her back door? Any signs among the grass, mud etc of that field?

    Would @bjsc care to comment on the actual crime scene as it was found?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    Sophie was lying on her back on the r/h side of Lane (as you look up towards the house). Her feet were about 2' from the open metal gate and her head, which was turned to the left, was toward the house. Her left arm was at her side and her right arm was flexed at the elbow with the hand against her right side. Her white leggings were caught on barbed wire which ran along and old stone wall which bordered the lane to the right ( again looking upward) and were ripped at the waist exposing part of the lower torso. To the right of her head was a large, heavily bloodstained, flat stone of the type used in dry stone walling. Also to the right but at roughly hip level was a blood stained cavity block which lay partially on Sophie's blue dressing gown. There were skid marks on the gravelled part of the lane which were probably attributable to Shirly Foster. But also tyre marks in the grass above Sophie's head. There was a single small stone with a blood drop on it in the entrance to the field in front of Sophie's house and a few scattered blood drops on the laneway between the body and the entrance to this field. There was no blood found anywhere else other than a smear on the back door just above the handle which was later determined to be Sophie's. There was also a mention of blood on the door handle but this was insufficient for analysis. Other than this there was no sign of disturbance in or around the house.

    Please feel free to ask any more questions and I'll try to answer.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There was a single small stone with a blood drop on it in the entrance to the field in front of Sophie's house and a few scattered blood drops on the laneway between the body and the entrance to this field.

    Were the few drops of blood more like individual drops or a number of drops spread from one "event" (as in a splatter)?

    Any theories on how the drops might have gotten there? Would a nosebleed at the start of the struggle have left more drops?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    I am becoming increasingly reluctant to express an opinion after last Friday but really there are only 2 options.

    They were individual spots. The blood on the stone was Sophie's. The spots on the gravel were photographed but not sampled. So it was either Sophie moving around whilst bleeding or her attacker with blood on his hands etc etc. The spots are typical of blood dropped vertically (as you would get if you have a nosebleed).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I'm just wondering why she fell as she did.

    Face to face with an attacker seems to account for her position, but it also shows a horrible degree of direct brutality.

    I'd thought at first that she lay face down, as though struck from behind; you would land face down and then the assailant would move forward and deliver the final blows to back of head, to ensure death.

    But in this case it seems worse - hit in the face, and then her face battered in. (Apologies for the graphic detail...) Heaven help us, how anyone could DO this...and WHY?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭dmc17


    One thing I find interesting when reading posts where people refer to the attacker is that they generally say he/him/his. Do you think there is any chance it might not have been?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    She but up a considerable fight with extensive defense wounds to her hands and arms. She had obviously also crawled or been dragged. She had scratches to most exposed areas of skin. Obviously she was, to a certain extent, trapped because her clothing was caught on the wire. She also had petechial hemorrhaging and bruising to the strap muscles in the neck which may suggest an attempt at strangulation although this did not contribute to her death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    Yes, of course. It's perfectly possible it could have been a woman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,197 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Unrelated to this thread - apart from the fact that he now lives in Cork - but the police got it right in relation to Barry George and the Jill Dando murder. Like Bailey, he was the standout, indeed only, suspect. No other suspect(s) has emerged subsequently and it's unlikely he will ever be brought before the courts again leaving the case unsolved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    There were strands of her own hair in her hands which would suggest she was dragged by her long hair, it would be a natural reaction to either grab the hand that's pulling the hair or your own hair to relieve the pain. So was she pulled back out of the briars and ended face up, do you think?

    Also, the block appears to have blood on at least 3 of its long sides, which would be unlikely to happen if it were splatter blood. If it is splatter blood the block must have been moved or rolled , which would account for the block being on top of the blue dressing gown. Looking at the area now, it's likely the block could have rolled a quarter turn. But I'm still having trouble with the wrecked pumphouse roof and the block missing from the wall. I wonder do you have anything in statements from Alfie or or the Hellens, or anyone, about the damage to the pumphouse? I can't imagine Sophie passing in and out past the damaged roof without making arrangements to have it fixed.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    The pumping station seems to be a bit of a movable feast. There is a picture from a home video of Sophie walking down the track from the house with the pumping station behind her. Not sure when it was taken, the covering is intact but one block is missing from the front right. Fast forward to the murder, the covering is lifted and 2 blocks are missing from the front left - the corner nearest the field not nearest the roadway. But the original missing block is back in place. And it is apparent that there are brambles inside the pumping station so they may have been missing for some time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Strange one all right! All I can think is the top row of blocks was re-laid sometime between the older video still and your crime scene photos. Perhaps when the gate was installed. The blocks appear to be newer. The original row seems to have been laid wrong, as it appears to match the row underneath, whereas in the later photo the vertical joints are staggered, as they should be. Brambles and especially ivy would easily find it's way into a structure like that ,and even a year would see a foot or more of them inside the shed.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    So this is interesting - a retired UK detective identifies the true killer years after his colleagues spend millions trying to pin it on a bunch of Turkish dudes.

    While I’m not saying this is the case here, the relentless pursuit of Bailey without actually even achieving enough evidence for a prosecution no less a conviction, should be pause for thought. Considering it’s taxpayers money they’re spending I think the Gardai need to be held to account at this stage- just what investigations other than Bailey have they completed and just how deep did those investigations go?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13207141/emma-caldwell-solved-murder-retired-cop-Gerry-Gallacher-woman-dead-woods-police-killer-investigated.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    A fascinating read! We need him over here...

    I note that one reason this detective didn't stay in touch with the police is that the leader of the Cold Case team had been on the original investigating team. Surely this is a bad idea, counter-productive? Could lead to same mistakes being made again?

    The sticky-notes-on-the-wall method is almost a cliché of crime TV and whodunnits. I've heard that it is not how "real detectives" actually do their work. But it seems to have worked for this retired cop...anybody fancy giving it a try for the Sophie TduP case?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But how long did the Gardai actually spend in this relentless pursuit ?

    Bailey was arrested in 1997 and 1998 and that was that.

    Any investigation after that were French until this cold case review.

    You complain about the Gardai spending tax payers money going after Bailey.

    Do you want them spending tax payers money going after complete dead ends as well ?

    Or what are these other lines of enquiry they should be going down?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Fr Tod - "other lines of inquiry" could include...

    The car seen speeding out of the area in the early morning of the day that the body was found. Re-question this witness. Try to identify this car.

    The person seen in her car with Sophie as she drove from Cork towards Schull. Closely question the man who reported this.

    The person seen by Marie Farrell in Schull, and maybe also on the dark road -- if this was NOT Ian Bailey, then who was it? Has any other citizens of Schull seen a man matching this description, or know of him? Throw the net wider - he may have been staying in, eg, Bantry, Ballydehob, Skibbereen, or further afield.

    The person WITH Marie Farrell as she drove around that night - has never been identified - why? What did HE see? Re-question him, if still alive. Get an accurate timeline for this series of events.

    Plus, no doubt, others that we know not of because unpublished.

    Enough to make a start with, I think!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    You think none of these were investigated?

    The speeding car, the driver may have come forward and gave a perfectly good explanation to the Gardai.

    The shop assistant, that was investigated and I think it was determined that it was either not the same model of car as Sophie or that the dates were incorrect.

    The person seen in Schull by Marie Farrell. The man who lived next door to her shop also gave evidence, the transcript of which was shared here a few weeks ago.

    The person in the car with Farrell.

    Are you serious?

    The Gardai went to the ends of the earth trying to verify who that might have been.

    So you've posted nothing new.

    These lines of enquiry have been covered,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    I didn't say "not investigated"

    I'm suggesting RE-investigation, or at least re-examining.

    (Like in the Emma Caldwell case)

    It's a cold case review, not a revision exercise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    You're being pedantic now.

    The greatest likelihood is that the Gardai are satisfied that the speeding car, the shop attendant, etc etc have nothing of value.

    They probably determined this early on in the case and for very good reasons.

    If there really was something else there don't you think someone in media or a journalist or something over 27 years would have gone down that route.

    Solving something like this murder would sell a lot of books etc.

    But the reason why we don't see anything of value is because there is nothing there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It’s very apparent by your posts to everyone on this thread that you’re only interested in seeing Bailey done for this crime, you don’t for a minute entertain the possibility that it may have been someone else - so be it but don’t expect to engage in conversation as a result - and don’t try to deny it - you are calling avenues of enquiry other than Bailey, “dead ends” - it’s that very thinking that made the above case I quoted unsolved for 20 years- ironically you’ve actually proved a valuable point here with your myopic approach to this case



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    “Sticky notes” are very commonly used in problem solving in the corporate world - the visual allows you to “play” with ideas, see patterns and in this case solve a criminal puzzle - it’s not for everyone, it takes time but having used this technique for other things myself it does work if you use it properly. But it’s something you have to work at- this retired guy I have to take my hat off to him - he really played a blinder



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I think it was you o asked a few days ago to elaborate on other possibilities and you shyed away from it, with some excuse that it wasn't your job to do so.

    I'd entertain other possibilities if there was something to base them on better than what we have to base Bailey being main suspect on.

    But no one has produced a single thing here or in the last 27 years that would promote anyone else to being a more likely suspect than Bailey.

    So based on the complete lack of anything else I'll continue to regard Bailey as the main suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    You shoot down any alternative suggestions made by any other poster as if you’ve personally investigated them yourself - so no, when you ask me to provide alternative suggestions, I won’t - but I have done for other people, as they’re not quite as dismissive as you are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Because the alternative suggestions are based on ideas in people's heads rather than facts.

    People love to play internet detective, it's part of the current popularity of true crime content like podcasts etc.

    People like to think they are smarter than seasoned investigators and they can find stuff that no one else saw or thought to look at.

    People think that just because they don't know everything about something in the case then that something hasn't properly been investigated.

    Let's take the "Alfie had a cut on his hand" situation.

    That's all we know, a cut was observed on Alfie's hand and he claims he got it from a dog.

    This has lead to people speculating that he got the cut while murdering Sophie and the Gardai didn't investigate it properly.

    But maybe Alfie told the Gardai he got the cut from a dog and went to the doctor with it, and then the Gardai verified this with the doctor.

    And that's the end of the cut on the hand being of value.

    There is a shortage of evidence for other potential suspects, not because the Gardai didn't investigate it, but because it was never there in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭Zola1000


    Very well said. Fr Tod doesn't like having suitable answers to his questions addressed as in my case he's also avoiding. Yes everything he says is dead end and no other avenues but not in baileys case. He must have worked with AGS FrTod;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    There is a “shortage of evidence” for Bailey too, for the last 27 years- or haven’t you noticed? -but that doesn’t seem to stop you making him the one and only person to concentrate on at the expense of all others



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    We are aware of the evidence against Bailey as it was addressed by the DPP's office when it rubbished all of it. So we can safely assume that there is nothing else to point towards Bailey (as it would have been put forwards by now as key to a case against him). In two and a half decades if relentlessly trying to get him for the crime, AGS have absolutely nothing on him.

    Now there is no indication that other suspects were pursued as relentlessly or had the same level of investigation into them as Bailey had. Within a short period of time, AGS were able to disregard all of their suspects yet despite having nothing on Bailey managed to convince themselves that he was their killer. Over time, after he was their main suspect, then they managed to get him to amend his alibi but before that point they had nothing - no dna, no hairs, no fibres, just a theory that he staggerednover whilst drunk in order to have sex and a few scratches which nobody in AGS felt warranted a few photos 🙄 If you saw a movie with that as the plot line, you wouldn't believe it!

    Given the dearth of evidence, why are AGS so sure it was Bailey? Given the dearth of evidence, why disregard all other suspects?

    As for your comment that there is nothing else so it must have been Bailey - can you really not remove the blinkers and consider this case with an open mind? Do you seriously think that the investigation was quite thorough and has shown us the real killer or is there a possibility that the real killer wasn't investigated (for whatever reason) and as the evidence suggests wasnt the big loudmouth eejit?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    We are aware of the evidence against Bailey as it was addressed by the DPP's office when it rubbished all of it.

    Straight in with the DPP line again, like you never even read the multiple times I made it clear that I agree there is not enough against Bailey for a charge.

    I think I even quoted one of your "But what about the DPP" posts telling you that not too long ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    There is more evidence against Bailey than anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I think I’ll just ignore the idiot posters who pedal the “only Bailey” line from here on- I’m just going to quote this post back to them if they engage with me in future - a complete waste of time and an insult to intelligence. They’re not worth the effort.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭Zola1000


    This is really funny comment...ah yes very well said there is more evidence against bailey than anyone else. You can get it in the AGS files and all newspapers and on internet and..well anywhere i guess. Yes there is no other evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    So what other evidence, or even facts are there against other people that point to them as being a stranger suspect than Bailey?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 206 ✭✭Zola1000


    Actually I have no idea. The only evidence as you say is with bailey. I'm not going read anything else. There is more evidence as you say against bailey. That's it's , it's conclusive. We only need DNA to place him at scene. We only need reason of motive of why he would have done it..even though he may never have met her or knew her. IB was very very drunk..so doesn't remember the night in question , and he was fully sure he left no DNA so he has volunteered all to help. Yes he knows he was risk but said he would help anyways. Yes there is lots of evidence here..we are very close to prosecution?


    What were Alphies injuries.

    Was the driver or owner of speeding car ever questioned

    Did Daniel DP have any enemies.

    Was the french citizens living in area all questioned? What was the outcomes..some were in the drugs trade..we're they on run..did they owe money anyone.. we're they investigated in that way..background history past etc.

    Landowners around Sophie's house .what was disputes..they were never explained..or were they ..explain all above..I haven't read anything on it.. have you...

    Was there issues in Sophie's life..we don't know...it needs to be known..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,587 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Was the cut from a dog or an old skating accident? We now have Alfie possibly lying about how he cut his hand. Should he now become the prime suspect?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So no evidence of any value against him but you still believe it is enough to believe he is responsible 🙄

    There is no evidence against him. There are threads as one garda described it and these go nowhere.

    Why was Bailey considered a suspect with pretty much nothing against him yet others discounted without the same level of effort invested into them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,141 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You simply don't know that the evidence was never there in the first place. It is impossible for you to know that yet you declare it as a statement of fact. You already undercut your argument by saying "maybe" in relation to Alfie.

    If the Guards didn't properly investigate the morning scenario for the murder, how do you know there was no evidence to be found?

    These are the same seasoned investigators who tried to pass off Marie Farrell as a credible witness?

    Who engaged in unsafe conduct with Bill Fuller and Martin Graham?

    The same seasoned investigators who "lost" multiple pieces of evidence?

    The same seasoned investigators who tampered with the Jobs Book and destroyed the record of how Bailey came to identified as the prime suspect?

    The same seasoned investigators the French put back in their box fairly quickly when they tried to follow-up French angles?

    The only question is how much of these Garda shenanigans are down to incompetence, malfeasance or corruption. At least one of them should have faced charges.

    One of them lied with a smirk on his face about Bailey's coat, when the truth was they got Bailey's coat and "lost" it. That's your "seasoned investigators" is it? Seasoned in spouting BS, that's for sure.

    They don't get the benefit of the doubt that all avenues of investigation were properly explored.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That was my point - it appears that while AGS were able to consider Bailey as a key suspect early on despite at that point having nothing, other suspects weren't given the same level of scrutiny. It is therefore no surprise that we've nothing on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    And for many of those suspects it’s now way too late - they’re dead .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭bjsc


    Alfie actually told the Guards that it was an old skating injury which flared up in cold weather.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,372 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Surely you see the problem here. Both Alfie and Bailey had hand injuries. So you are saying that Alfies hand injury is plausible but Baileys hand injuries isnt plausible - ummmm



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