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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That report document is an insult to the victim of this brutal murder, it’s an insult to the public in whose interests the Office of the DPP is mandated to serve, and it must be addressed.

    Please elaborate



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Ya he moves the goalposts around when engaged. I quit bothering with him



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    I totally agree. Like the justification as to why investigation was conducted in way it was needs to be brought to public attention. I had mentioned @bjsc earlier but I understand it may sound totally unreasonable but my question was at high level can AGS not agree with Cold case team to look at all other evidence and not just evidence submitted to DPP on two prior occasions. Surely the information gathering could start from beginning. But i guess it's just highly unlikely



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Ms Robini


    Your posts are spot on, keep it up. I hope you are never swayed by the baseless nonsense trotted out here by people who prefer to poke holes in circumstantial evidence than stand back, look at the facts and evidence as a whole, and accept that it points one way. It is for the authorities now to conclude the case review and for the new, less misogynistic Office of the DPP to look at all the evidence - including any new evidence that has come to light as part of the continuing investigation.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    stand back, look at the facts and evidence as a whole, and accept that it points one way

    There are very few, if any, facts that point in any direction. What you have are some easily dismissed bits of circumstantial info which is of no prosecution value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    This post is borderline comical. Are you actually suggesting there is evidence to get a conviction in present state. There is lots of circumstantial evidence but what you keep failing to note is our system won't just take circumstantial evidence alone..have you got the DNA at scene? ...no ...then what have we..

    It points one way...yes and the information does not stack up. We still have no evidence he met her knew her had any interaction with her...and most hilarious is people even say he knew he left no DNA at scene and was willing take risk..like after all alcohol all his apparent clumsiness and yet..he had no knowledge of samples of anything found for testing that he wasn't on them. Like even hair fibre. It's truly comical.

    Lastly I've mentioned here few times but the Information the DPP has is only as good as information provided to it from AGS. AGS are responsible for the failed investigation of STDP



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    That may change if the file is submitted to the DPP

    He may say the evidence would have warranted a prosecution

    Can't see any other developments at this stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,641 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    ""...can AGS not agree with Cold case team to look at all other evidence and not just evidence submitted to DPP on two prior occasions. Surely the information gathering could start from beginning. But i guess it's just highly unlikely

    Well, no. In fact that is the whole idea of a "cold case review"

    A new look, with fresh eyes, starting from scratch and taking a fresh look at EVERYTHING. Establishing a timeline (last sighting of deceased, first sighting of body etc) and reviewing all evidence - first and foremost, of course, any physical forensic evidence from the scene. But also hearsay, circumstances, suggestive trends and historical factors.

    Not aiming to prove or disprove any previous theory or theories. Just looking at the whole case again.

    And it is a different team altogether, a new pair of eyes.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Two DPPs said the evidence put forwards was crap. The current DPP in not likely to suddenly see it as having legal worth



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    All media reports state that the the review is solely focussed on bailey . I therefore assume this is likely true.

    I assume the below

    -The cold case team start with an open mind

    -Therefore there are no "avenues" "new leads" of any merit



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Correct

    I'm talking about the beefed up case file as reported in the media

    May turn out nothing comes of the review



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Thats a problem because there is no merit in the Bailey avenue given the rubbish AGS put to the DPP in order to prosecute him.

    What you're effectively suggesting is the Cold Case team are following the hunches of the original team. Hunches like the one the malicious c**t who wouldn't drop it in the Kerry Baby case and who knew she was guilty despite scientific evidence



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I believe its a fair assumption that the CCR team start with an open mind and take it from there

    That's pretty much their job description

    No reason to think otherwise



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Mackinac


    Regarding the axe. Is there any evidence this was used in the attack? If J Hellen hadn’t noticed it was missing would an axe ever been mentioned?



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Yes that's fair point but in justification as to what other available information there is , or can an investigation actually be conducted on new theories and motives..

    Ok so I'm saying that the french wouldn't allow us investigate on their territory, and in early days were highly critical of our investigation but happy to take all evidence and then use their law on circumstances to provide for conviction.

    Like we still know so little on french side. Some of circumstantial evidence for husband DTDP needs a massive review imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I can only assume the CCR team took a look at the french angle

    They hardly gonna waste resources on a massive review if not needed

    There's no suspicion among the family of DTDP

    Vague talk here about a money motive

    Bjsc has already stated a French hitman is unlikely. Now he hardly hired a paddy to do the job!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    But is the real problem with the report or with the original investigation and the case that it presented to the DPP?

    It would be extremely unhealthy if the DPP was not able to criticise a case submitted for prosecution that was so flawed, unsupported by evidence and had so many loose ends as to be useless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I do think the family are or were suspicious of DTDP. In the netflix documentary they mention that they were shocked that Daniel didn't travel to Ireland in the immediate aftermath of Sophie's murder. They also mention he was very well connected and had financial problems. It was clear to me watching the doc that the family had no love for or any real relationship with Daniel.

    I think they were suspicious of him but for whatever reason cannot or do not want to say that publicly.

    For the cold case team to dismiss and not investigate a french connection to this murder would be very foolish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Yes it's massive resources that have been wasted up to now and no conclusion. They were not allowed investigate much on french side I read or correct me on that..

    I didn't say suspicion on the family. But I just find it more some of elements need a lot of review. I'm not talking about hitmen or money.

    Basically I felt first scenario was when Michael Sheridan interviewed DTDP in 2002 think it was. But what found very strange from interview was that father of Sophie had asked Michael prior to interview to ask Daniel did he love his daughter. Very strange thing to ask but led me to believe the family did not know Daniel well or were on much speaking terms. Also I know he didn't travel with Sophie..fine and he has call with her..and all that they were on good terms..but he had baby with his other partner less than six months later. Now I'm not saying anything but mentally it must have had significant effect on Sophie and was it said she was also pregnant when she died..is this true?

    She was certainly using cork to escape and in way was her new territory but someone hd grudge..and I believe it's underlying theme here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    They're a specialist unit

    They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't start with an open mind



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Going back to the Doctor who pronounced death. It was reported (dispute about rigor mortis I know) that he had made notes at the time. What was in those notes I wonder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I'm not sure on the French /grudge angle

    Bjsc speculated i believe that this was likely an incident that spiralled

    That's what it looks like , someone lost it here and smashed her face in

    So that wouldn't tie in with DTDP, the only way i could see him involved is if the intent was to have her murdered



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Well you would hope that's the situation!

    But the team is part of AGS and doing a good thorough investigation could highlight serious misconduct in AGS. They may have no interest in actually solving the case and this is just ' a keep the family happy and make it look like we are doing something exercise '.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Yes that's a possibility

    I would hope a file will be submitted and we'll hear something from the dpp



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    One thing of note

    Nothing is being leaked afaik on bailey ?

    Suggests possibly they are building the case on him

    There was speculation they may leak stuff to paint him as the killer who got away



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Ok that's possible fair that hitman is highly unlikely and I would totally agree. But let's say by association she was well-known and well connected with DTDP. Was it also said french citizens living close by were in drug trade..others were convicts on run. I know it's still very fanciful...but we don't know of threats within them circles against DTDP given they know how wealthy he was ..and maybe wasn't aware there would be threat to Sophie's life in such remote place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc


    Just found this very interesting post from you on another thread. Given what you were saying about me would you care to comment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    DTDP didn't like the remote place on cork , he also didn't like some studio place she worked in throughout Paris that it was in one roughest areas. Success brings lots of enemies and the french living in area could have held grudges. Now base that against landowners , I might still say that weights heavier landowners dispute grudge etc. but these are avenues we need more information on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    It's possible the killer and motive is completely unknown to us and AGS and that's why the case is unsolved

    The case is riddled with unanswered questions



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