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Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

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Comments

  • #542
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894829#Comment_121894829

    Not fake. I am a BMW fanboy. Always have been. Have had more bmw’s than any other brand. Still have some on the drive right now. My current favorite production car is the BMW M2.



  • #543
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: Cut the personal attacks on each other. thread bans if it continues.



  • #544
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,704 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894680#Comment_121894680

    Okay, what do you drive and I'll guarantee I'll find something dodgy about the manufacturer.

    Seriously, they're just cars. They're bought based on need for most people and suitability for those needs within a specific budget at a specific time.

    The only reason I bought the M3 over a Kia Niro or Renault Megane or whatever was based on my need to travel to Crumlin Hospital every few months, so we needed reliable charging.

    Judging anyone on their choice of car is pathetic.



  • #545
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894688#Comment_121894688

    Nobody knows who Oliver blume, arguably you probably googled him.



  • #546
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895314#Comment_121895314

    Most car people would know he’s VW CEO. I certainly did not have to google him 😂😂😂

    I’ve mentioned him in previous posts.



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  • #547
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Once again as evidenced by the last few pages people are taking the title off tangent.


    Is Elon harming the brand?

    Yes.

    Fairly simple. It's not , is the Chinese state impacting their Industry... do people know who the ceo of VW are. Look at what the Germans did 80 years ago.

    All of that is literally called whataboutry.

    I am both able to own a BYD and be extremely present in mind that China is a dangerous nation to its neighbours. I won't stand on a thread defending China.


    I'm not sure why someone would defend Elon or have a whataboutery tirade either. Madness.. and it opens up accusations of being a fanboy based on those actions.



  • #548
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895318#Comment_121895318

    No they genuinely wouldn't, I'm a car person. I'd say if I asked anyone I know who olive Blume was they'd look perplexed.

    That's the serious reality people do not know the ceos of car marques.



  • #549
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895331#Comment_121895331

    Well many do. Myself included. And many other posters are well versed in the actions of manufacturers that the general public wouldn’t.

    If you’re on here, in this forum, it’s prudent to say you’d know more than the general population. Many people buy a car based it’s looks, price, use case or indeed, whoever gives the best trade in price on paper. Whether that’s a Tesla, BMW etc

    The general public don’t give hoot about Musk when making a decision to buy a Tesla. I don’t study a CEO either before buying a car though. I leave that to the fanboys.



  • #550
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895327#Comment_121895327

    “I am both able to own a BYD and be extremely present in mind that China is a dangerous nation to its neighbours. I won't stand on a thread defending China.”

    That's the point though. I don’t think many, if any poster here has defended Musk. It’s the hypocrisy of stating I wouldn’t buy a Tesla because of the actions of a CEO yet blatantly ignoring the actions of the CEO of the car brand they have bought, Audi, VW, Hyundai etc



  • #551
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The way I see it is that Musk is much hated by the unsure lefties who absolutely hate it when somebody dares to question The Truth. Or luddites who are stuck in the old world where the Germans used to build quality machines that genuinely were made of metal and expensively without shortcuts. And now feel butt hurt when Tesla and others are running circles around them when they can't sell their plastic items charging over the odds for them.



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  • #552
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,023 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Word has it, he's been living rent free in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown people's heads.



  • #553
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895421#Comment_121895421

    They are trying to get rid of the showroom from sandyford. Dump it into the outlaws in Dublin City instead 😂



  • #554
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Not sure there is any evidence on this thread of anyone defending Musk or his behaviour, in general terms. There does seem to be tacit acceptance that he is a divisive character and not liked liked by a large swathe of people around the world.

    Is he harming the brand? No hard evidence one way or the other, certainly none demonstrated here. One thing to consider however is how unconscious psychology governs decisions. Musk, being so well-known, almost certainly has steered a lot of buyers towards Tesla as a brand - note I haven't said anything about creating an affinity, just an awareness. The affinity perhaps is created when the vehicles are inspected more closely, test drives booked, reviews absorbed, and deposits placed. Like it or hate it, Tesla do make among the very best EVs in the world right now - will it last forever? Probably not, and time will tell.

    Another thing to consider is the level of disingenuity in some of the posts. How many of the "I would never buy a Tesla because of Musk" posts are actually for different reasons entirely? Such as....partner won't let me, boss won't approve, can't afford one now on finance.....and are being passed off as a "principled stand" against the CEO? More than a few I'd hazard.

    Anyone that decries Tesla for Musk, and continues to use Twitter has no credibility at all.



  • #555
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,023 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896025#Comment_121896025

    i've asked a few posters what's he actuall done to deserve a boycott by them without any response. I can understand owners been annoyed he dropped prices etc but if someone has a problem with what I see as his "caues" they are the ones with a problem.



  • #556
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896025#Comment_121896025

    Yeah that's part of what makes it hard to determine brand damage, it's difficult to quantify how many potential buyers have been put off

    There's been a few people here who have said they would have bought a Tesla were it not for Musk being in charge, so the number of lost sales is more than zero

    However this doesn't seem to have done any real damage to sales, so not sure it's hurt the company

    As I said before, I think he's damaging the company in more subtle ways, such as diverting resources away from more lucrative products towards whatever he wants

    Imagine for example if Tesla had delivered the Model 2 this year for the $25k or so instead of a $100k+ Cybertruck. They'd probably have all their lines maxed out trying to meet demand and would have profits secured for the next decade

    Instead they've got a meme on wheels which is unlikely to ever pay for it's investment costs, and engineers moonlighting in Musk's various other ventures

    From the perspective of a shareholder, you've a CEO who's demanding a very large salary and not delivering value for money

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #557
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The last few pages are people literally defending musk and using whataboutery to do so.

    Cognitive dissonance off the scale...


    Re read your own posts fellas


    Also yes he's still damaging the brand simple facts if he was jettisoned and they put a nobody faceless ceo in place they'd sell more.



  • #558
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896184#Comment_121896184

    I don't think there's any evidence for that though, that's conjecture and opinion.

    Random posters saying they wouldn't buy a Tesla because of Musk is also not evidence. See the point above about disingenuity as well. Several reasons why someone might want to project onto a "principled stand" whether true or not.

    Also, easy to take a "principled stand" when you've no choice in the matter. Definitely seems to be a bit of smoke and mirrors there.



  • #559
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,704 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896184#Comment_121896184

    Bullshit, nobody's defending Musk. What's being defended here is the car choice people made and the reasons for it. Asking for the same morals and principles to be applied evenly and fairly across all brands.

    Such a simple concept lost on the twitter user, the company Musk actually owns ffs🤣



  • #560
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896234#Comment_121896234

    It's not random posters go off and see the numerous feedback sure it even has spawned bumper stickers.

    This isn't listermint specific no point making it about me.

    A outwardly right wing mouth piece who's thrown thousands out of work isn't someone that many people want to be aligned with. What's funny is you can't see why that may be the case.



  • #561
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896237#Comment_121896237

    They have you have whataboutery.

    Note I don't judge anyones car choice buy what you want.

    I've only ever said elons a prat and he's harming the business . Many tesla owners on here take huge exception to that an really take it personally. That's a bit weird don't you think...

    Are you Elon?.

    I'm not out here defending volvo ceo or renault ceo or the Chinese government or bmw ceo. Because I wouldn't if they're pricks il say it.



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  • #562
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896160#Comment_121896160

    I'll bite, although I haven't actually boycotted the brand, but I'm not planning to buy a Tesla anyway

    My problem with him is that he's an obnoxious prick who thinks he's the smartest person in the world and has surrounded himself with a group of sychophants who will happily pay to huff his farts

    He doesn't seem to engage in any sort of analytical thinking and won't accept any opposing viewpoints. This might be fine when you're in startup mode but as a company leader he should be focusing on a growth strategy rather than vanity projects

    I also strongly disagree with his politics. He endorses a very laissez-faire type of world where individual achievements are king and it's everyone for themselves.

    Personally I think people are at their best when they pull together to accomplish a task. Individual achievements should be celebrated, but it doesn't automatically confer some degree of superiority upon that person

    Okay, so I don't like the guy, but what does that matter?

    Well he's also a person in a very influential position due to his wealth and celebrity status. I've always felt people in that position should be open to the opinions and thoughts of those around them and try to find consensus instead of talking about how he's going to put the cocaine back in coca cola

    I feel that not calling out his BS is just a silent form of endorsement and that's why I don't support any of his thinking

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #563
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    But you're presenting "Elon is harming the brand" as a fact, when it's actually just an opinion.

    Not disagreeing with your opinion that he's an "outwardly right wing mouth piece who's thrown thousands out of work", but presenting it as anything other than in your opinion he is harming Tesla is just conjecture.

    We do have evidence that egregious and abhorrent actions on the part of VW management had little to no negative effect on VW group sales, so any correlation to "Musk must be harming the brand" is just an opinion.

    Did it ever occur to you that folks who declare on here that they "won't buy a Tesla because of Musk" may not be telling the truth? After all, it is an Internet forum at the end of the day.

    Tesla seems to be doing well in Ireland, certainly as well as their capacity allows, which is probably their business objective for this country achieved.



  • #564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,704 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896257#Comment_121896257

    Why do people constantly misrepresent what others have said just to make a point?

    Multiple times in this thread I've stated my dislike for Musk and his seemingly fragile ego.

    Not once have I tried to defend him in any way.



  • #565
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Not disagreeing, but you're not exactly veiling your bias there really, which erodes the credibility of anything you may try to present as "fact".



  • #566
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896330#Comment_121896330

    That’s fine. It’s your hard earned.

    Your post could easily be talking about an ID4 too.



  • #567
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭josip


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896165#Comment_121896165

    You're thinking with your European/Asian hat on about the Model 2. If you've got your US hat on, then Tesla had already made a small car, the Model 3, so it was time to try and target the largest segment in the US market. The cyber truck does look like it was a bit of a moon shot that missed, trying to put too much bleeding edge stuff into the same product at the same time. But I think the decision to target the US truck market was the correct one at the time.



  • #568
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,724 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Whatever about his actual politics, his tenure at Twitter has proven several things to me:

    1. He’s bad at running a company.

    2. He’s bad at surrounding himself with smarter people.

    3. He makes terrible software engineering decisions and doesn’t really understand software.

    4. He reacts badly to people disagreeing with him.

    5. He likes to overwork his staff and doesn’t create a pleasant working environment


    These aren’t my opinions, they are about as close to objective statements as you can get in a situation like this.

    Here’s my opinion though:

    Put all these things together and you definitely have a perception of Tesla as a company with shoddy quality standards, and an increasing reliance on bad software over well established hardware.

    Put simply: Musk is a total disaster for Tesla past their early scrappy years.



  • #569
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896362#Comment_121896362

    There’s absolutely no problem with that. In the same way there’s absolutely no problem with saying I wouldn’t touch a BYD because of their Chinese government influence, VW because of their Hitler past, Audi because of their concentration camp use etc etc

    Why is is ok to say that about a Tesla but not one of the other brands?

    Vw, Byd and Audi owners may not like that or may disagree with it, but that’s for them to deal with.



  • #570
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896371#Comment_121896371

    In the same way as it’s easy to rule out other brands because of their CEO or company actions. Personal ethics. Once it’s not hypercritical.



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  • #571
    DrPsychia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭DrPsychia


    I only hate Musk because he deleted USS, didn't provide us with proper 360 camera view(because he didn't want to pay Nissan for the rights), no working rain sensor, and is on the path of deleting stalks from all models which is a terrible decision.

    I think he has done a lot of positive work for the brand up until the past couple years but I'd love to see him gone now, I think he's doing more harm than good due to his Tesla business decisions. The Cybertruck is nothing more than a train-wreck vanity project, and it's an absolutely ghastly looking thing. All those resources should have been poured into the Model 2 to deliver it quicker which would have put serious pressure on well established brands and the incoming barrage of Chinese brands.



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